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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Interesting that Reilly’s sign was modelled on a Colt 1873 Peacemaker.

The above picture (courtesy of Google Street view) is the sign in Bank Street, Maidstone above the premises formerly occupied by Swinfen and then Sanders, Gunsmiths.

Last edited by Parabola; 04/14/24 02:55 PM.
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Argo44 Offline OP
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Chapter VIII. 1860 – 1867: 58. 1863-1873: Pin-Fire vs Center Fire
The chapter has been edited to include observations on two styles of center-break, Central Fire rifles and shotguns being offered in the 1865-1869 time period,
-- Thin fence, noseless hammer guns which copied pin-fire type actions, which was widely used 1865-1870
-- Broader and deeper fences with a back splash guard and normal hammer, which became ubiquitous from 1870 - 1930
. . . . . .based on the following line:
https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=645601#Post645601

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I will add that this attempt at understanding the relationship between "Central Fire" guns from 1865 and their pin-fire precedents began with this misunderstanding. I looked at the Dickson and immediately said, "converted pin-fire." The Dickson records say otherwise. It stuck in the mind and this germinated into the above understanding:

https://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=635255
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


This gun, 14983 owned by 12boreman, is the first gun with 2 rue Scribe on the rib (February-March 1868). It is clearly a converted pin-fire, which has raised some questions about the dating chart. The first four or five extant Reilly guns with rue scribe on the ribs are all converted pin-fires. Would Reilly have re-engraved the ribs when he converted them? Reviewing the continuity of the script engraving and the cost involved, probably unlikely but something to be kept in mind:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 04/24/24 10:49 PM.

Baluch are not Brahui, Brahui are Baluch
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UK Archives has forward the bankruptcy account from E.M. Reilly & Co., presented at a meeting held in August 1913. Reilly declared bankruptcy on 06 June 1912. It was hoped that this report would contain lists of equipment, machinery, etc. sold from 295 Oxford Street to pay off creditors. It does not. It is purely a financial document listing amounts recovered from debtors and paid out to bondholders and creditors.

The list of creditors being paid a limited amount on their debt (in addition to the usual water, gas bills) is interesting. The companies include:
. .-- Eley
. .-- Kynoch
. .-- Holloway - SN 35614, one of the last guns serial numbered by Reilly, also has a Holloway SN. See Chapter XII. Death of EM Reilly; Decline and Fall 1890-1918; 91. 1904-1912: Reilly Reduced to Finishing Guns Bought in the White?
Remington
. .-- Le Personne & Co. - (Belgian gun merchant living in uK: see: https://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=611262
. .-- Remington Arms
. .-- Stevens Arms
. .-- Webeley & Scott
. .-- London Small Arms
. .-- Regent shooting ground
etc.

Among the debts recovered is one from Lord Conyngham. This is likely either
1. Lord Victor George Henry Francis Conyngham, 5th Marquess of Conyngham, (1880-1918)
2. Lord Frederick William Burton Conyngham, 6th Marquess of Conyngham (1890-1974) (brother of the 5th)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Probably the former since the #2 didn't ascend to the Marquess-ship until 1918. The Conyngham's were Irish landed nobility. A "Marquess" ranks above an earl but below a duke.

Selected documents to be posted.
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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 04/27/24 10:29 PM.

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This ad on gunstar.UK for an air gun uses the historical data from this line. Gratifying progress.
https://www.gunstar.co.uk/reilly-1840-1850-air-cane-30-air-rifles/Air-Guns/1689631

Reilly was a 19th century London gun-maker that made guns from 1828 to 1912 when the firm went bankrupt. Originally started by Joseph Charles Reilly, the air guns appear to be the invention of his son Edward Michael. All Reilly records were lost in the first decade of the 20th century. In August 1840 the firm’s advertising style changed from J.C. Reilly to just ‘Reilly’ which may mark the advent of the 23-year-old E.M. as a full partner in the company. Reilly, during this period, also became known for its air cane guns.
Size: 96 cm (37 ¾ inches)


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Argo I've seen quite a few references to your work on Reillys on the net. People have noticed it for sure.

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Yeah Argo44, remain ever stalwart. The Nuns & Nurses, maybe even Dr. Peter Bertussi(1931-2013), of the Mobile Infirmary would be most proud...

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On GI there is a Reilly-Comblain that is unusual.
. . 1) it has London proofmarks on the barrel;
. . 2) It is bored for "23" (.587) not "25" (.577).
. . 3) It allegedly has a Reilly SN behind the tang, 15492 (which would date it to October 1868, after the Reilly-Comblain had been eliminated from the breech loading trials in July 1868.
. . 4) It is patent use #37. . .the earliest PUN is #14 and it had Belgian proofs on the barrel.

Other than that it has all the usual stamps found on a Reilly-Comblain. The PUN is not mentioned.

There is a chapter on the Reilly-Comblain in the history - Chapter IX/52. There are 11 existing Reilly-Comblains that I know of - this being the 12th. However I have never seen a Reilly-Comblain with an actual Reilly serial number and so stated in the history. They are usually dated per "patent use numbers," the earliest being #14, the last being #6109.

I speculated that early Reilly-Comblains were proofed in London but this information is not included on any of the low-numbered PUN's so I can't confirm it. Maybe as few as 50 were built on Oxford or New Oxford street (if any because no SN - Reilly didn't build it). Late PUN's have Birmingham proof marks. I speculated that Reilly jumped the PUN's up from maybe 50 to 5000 when he moved all production to Birmingham.

All the 11 are chambered for "25".

Interesting gun. I'll have to change the history . . .because if it has a SN, Reilly clearly built it. I went back and looked at all the other Reilly-Comblains and cannot identify another SN.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...lain-military-rifle.cfm?gun_id=102689167

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
Patent use # 37
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Curious what is in the circle stamp on the barrel.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by Argo44; 05/30/24 06:44 PM.

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looks to be the belgian proof for muzzleloading guns at standard pressures....the overstamp of "23" is obscuring the "G" in the oval....this mark is also seen commonly with a crown atop the oval - which is the extra-pressure version of the proof mark.

i'd say the gun has some belgian connection - barrel sourced there?

best regards,

tom


"it's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards."
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Thanks Tom. The Comblain was a Belgian gun. Wondering why Belgian proofs for a muzzle loader barrel would be four on a breech loader. Perhaps the barrel was modified just as the Enfield barrels were modified to accept the Snider action.

The earliest Reilly-Comblain I have found is Patent Use #14 and it had Belgian barrel proofs (it must also have had London Proofs as well but the photos are minimal). This gun is PUN 37. I'm going to assume that Reilly supplied 14 or 15 guns straight out of Belgium for the trials Feb 1868 to July 1868. Afterwards he made a few for the sporting rifle Market. . .then switched production to Birmingham for bumping the SN series up to 5,000. The chapter on the Reilly-Comblain will be modified.


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So a 23 bore for the 577 Snider? I would say that unless Reilly purchased patents of Hubert Joseph Comblain like Henri Mangeot & others, that it was actually made in Liège and maybe finished in England. The encircled >>ELG<< is just the Black Powder proof typical for the period up to the early 1890s. Sometimes one sees encircled >>EGB<< on Government wares. Unless the smoke pole is devoid of the Perron, Inspectors Marks, etc., I would say made in Liège and finished in England. Reilly must have had some stock in Comblain for his name to be added??? Now Reilly could have had a contractor in Liège?

Serbus,

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