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Joined: Mar 2021
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Hello all,

I picked up this single shot pistol from gunbroker. Its mechanically sound luckily. The internals are in ok shape, albiet a little rusty. I did a quick wax cast of the chamber (after a fruitless google of the gauge marks).
While taking it apart I noticed it had two magled screws that had been ground flush with the backstrap. I take it this is for some stock mount?
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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That is a very interesting. Is it originally centerfire?

I think you are right about the shoulder stock. The bottom of the grip being part of the lockup I would imagine.

Some more pictures would be nice. How long is the barrel?

The lock up must be on the trigger guard but the trigger looks different. How does it lock and what sort of action does it have?

Last edited by BrentD, Prof; 06/04/24 08:18 PM.

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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

The barrel lug locks into this trigger guard/underlever. This also cocks the hammer. My other break action uses a striker that is pushed back by the lever and locks on the sear.
It looks like it was originally centerfire. Gauge marks are 29/43 but the the left of 2 is bad pitting so it could of been 129.

Im sorry for peicemealing pictures. Im splitting time between work and caring for our toddler

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A really nice simple action. That looks like a lot of fun. Is the relined bore good enough to keep or will you reline again?

How long is the barrel? The first photo makes it look very long - like maybe 14" but that is probably just an illusion of the photograph.


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I love single shot rifles, but also single shot pistols and that's a pretty neat one! Not sure I've ever seen one like it, but I bet it will be a fun shooter!
I've got a couple Remington Model 1891 Target pistols, both built by famous gun and barrel makers. One is by Arthur Hubalek of New York City, and the other by HM Pope. The Hubalek is .22LR Hubalek barrel and has a highly modified grip frame to make the grip larger, plus a lightened hammer, and trigger work. The Pope has a Pope barrel that is threaded for a silencer for indoor matches. Also has a lightened hammer, trigger work. over travel adjustment screw, and original grips.
Pope above, and Hubalek below:

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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journeymen,
Gauge number 29.43 is way too large for that type of action. However, 129.43 would be a good fit. It translates to a bore (not groove or bullet) of 8.38mm. This is about .303" and would be appropriate for several of the nominal 8mm Tesching, 320, or 32 caliber cartridges, many of which could be used in this type of action. It is a pre 1912 gun and since it has been relined the original chamber is not available for making a chamber cast. Consequently, I'm afraid it is no longer possible to determine the original chambering. It is my unsolicited opinion that modern 22 Hornet ammunition would generate too much pressure for the long-term use of the gun. I suggest you load it to 5.6x35R Vierling pressure instead.
Mike

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I had, many years ago, a similar pistol but it did not have the saw handle spur at the top of the grip.

It was Belgian, smooth bore and .22 rim-fire. Nowdays it would be a “s.5 Prohibited short firearm”!

I could not decide if it was intended to be used as a Saloon Pistol or as a naturalist’s collection gun.

I share the concern that the action is not strong enough for .22 Hornet factory loads. Perhaps use the milder cast bullet loads?

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@mike, i'll have to look up load data. Im just glad its in a caliber with bullets that are easier to source than my 9.3. We have a really big gunstore down the way. Ill see if they have any ammo available. I'll have the cleanup on the action lever done today

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journeymen,
If the "really big gunstore" has any ammo that will chamber, it will likely be 22 Hornet. It won't likely "blow the pistol up" but prolonged use may "shoot it loose". If you PM me, I will give you some loading data that will be gentler on the pistol'.
Mike

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pm sent! I really appreciate the help Mike. I figured the issue you mentioned would be a concern and would rather not have this gun break on its next heir

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Tangentially germane to this is the kiplauf I have that utilizes a very similar action. Its (original un-lined) barrel is chambered for 5.6x35R. Bore is a bit odd with a .225" groove diameter and a fast twist of 1-9". Out of respect for the old girl I load 52 gr. gaschecked bullets from a Lee Bator mould sized .226" with 6.0gr. 2400, Hornet brass neck sized with a custom expander. Quite a fun little rifle, and seeing this pistol has given me something to keep my eye peeled for as a companion piece.

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Gary D.
Sounds like you have a fun pistol. If it will close on a Hornet case it likely had the rim recess deepened if it started as a 5.6x35R, the proof marks should tell you. A 22 Hornet should be marked with bore diameter in mm with 36 for case length. A 5.6x35R Vierling would be marked 35 for the case length. If it has the bore diameter marked in gauge measurement, it would be the Vierling cartridge since mm marking started before the Hornet was born. Shooting cast bullets is a good choice and 6 grains 2400 seems like it would be a good economical load. The gun and load are the type, my friends and I have a lot of fun with shooting at turtles. Notice I said shooting "at" not shooting, the little buggers have tiny heads. There is a high hill behind the pond to catch the bullets. It is fun, but also it is a pretty good exercise in range estimation.
Mike

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Thanks, Mike. Marked "5.6x35". But, it's a kiplauf not a pistol. 25 7/8" barrel. I have no history of the rifle, but you're right that since Hornet brass chambers freely somebody must have deepened the rim recess.

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Gary,
We find that change pretty often. The world is full of 22 Hornets, but 5.5X35R Vierlings are getting scarce. Other than the higher pressures, the main problem with the conversion to 22Hornet comes in combination guns where there is a second rifle barrel involved, mainly, but not exclusively, Vierlings. The two different caliber barrels were regulated to "shoot together", but modern Hornet ammo has a very different trajectory. For single shot rifles the "fix" is usually adjusting or replacing the sights, which is considerably easier than re-regulating Vierling barrels. The change to the sights may have already been done. Handloading to 5.6x35R specs also works, but if that was an option for the previous owner the conversion may not have been done. Have fun.
Mike

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Originally Posted by Gary D.
Thanks, Mike. Marked "5.6x35". But, it's a kiplauf not a pistol. 25 7/8" barrel. I have no history of the rifle, but you're right that since Hornet brass chambers freely somebody must have deepened the rim recess.

Would you happen to have any pictures? that sounds like a wonderful rifle.

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Interesting find! It sounds like you have a unique single-shot pistol that might have been converted to .22 Hornet caliber.

The magled screws in the backstrap could definitely be evidence of a stock mount that was previously removed. Stocks on single-shot pistols can improve accuracy and stability.

Relining a pistol barrel to .22 Hornet is uncommon, but possible. It would be helpful to have a gunsmith confirm the caliber and assess the quality of the relining work.

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Hello again. I was able to slug the barrel with a .224 35grn bullet which seems to show that the bore is ~.222". When I insert a live 22 hornet cartridge into the chamber it doesnt seat fully, but it doesnt seem to be the rim. Its feels like its catching on the cartridge shoulder or (if the bore slug is correct) that the bullet is slightly too large to sit in the throat of the bore.

Edit: yep, pulled the bullet out of the case and the case sits perfectly

Last edited by journeymen; 07/13/24 11:49 AM.
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journeyman,
Bullets of .222" are available but are a little hard to find. Unless my memory fails me, this diameter bullet is intended for the S&W Mod.53 revolvers, but should work fine in your pistol.
Mike

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[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]
First cartridge on the left is a 40grn bullet pushed into a case so that the gun can lock up. Right cartridge is factory 35grn hornady
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

For the sake of it i fired the primed case. It looks like the primer is pushing out?
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Last edited by journeymen; 07/13/24 04:47 PM.
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The primer pushing out would be 'normal' for just a primed case. Light loads will show the same tendency. The pressure of the powder burning and forcing the bullet out the end pushes back on the case (one of Newton's laws) and reseats the primer.

Last edited by Hoot4570; 07/14/24 09:05 AM.
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That's interesting! It sounds like your kiplauf rifle in 5.6x35R is a unique piece. The caliber and fast twist rate seem uncommon. The hand-loaded gaschecked bullets you use sound like a great way to get good performance out of the rifle. If you ever find a pistol in the same caliber, it would definitely be a perfect companion for your rifle!

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