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Joined: Feb 2003
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Originally Posted by David Williamson
I believe Winchester Super Target has replaced AA Lite.

It’s a different powder. The two are not interchangeable, not that you’re implying that.

Super Target has gotten absurdly expensive, and the rumor is that 244 is ‘replacing’ Super Target in the lineup.

The Winchester brand is known for this kind of product instability.

Alliant (former Hercules) which has announced their exit from the market at least stayed with their various products. Some of them for over a century.

This whole powder/primer supply issue stinks. It reeks of political manipulation and corporate greed.

Personally, when my supplies are exhausted in a few years I’m finished with this hobby. Costs are just insane both shells and targets.

I’m going to sell all this stuff and take up something more rewarding like submarine rides to the Titanic.


"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Hodgdon will only be a monopoly because Alliant had just about stopped selling any powder, at any price. Without Hodgdon I doubt anybody would reload anything. And their prices still lag behind Alliant by about ten bucks a pound.

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I was just wondering vam5067. You mentioned having a low noise shell. Do you wear ear plugs when you shoot? I shoot 2-3 times a week and that's what I use for silencing gun noise. 👍

Last edited by Jimmy W; 06/17/24 06:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by KY Jon
Hodgdon will only be a monopoly because Alliant had just about stopped selling any powder, at any price. Without Hodgdon I doubt anybody would reload anything. And their prices still lag behind Alliant by about ten bucks a pound.

I tend to agree with this. Hodgdon was pretty reasonably priced powder for many decades. They got their start when Bruce Hodgdon became an entrepreneur before I was born, and bought up train-car loads of WWII surplus military powder, and sold it at a very cheap price to reloaders.

I read varying accounts of why powder, primers, and other components have gotten so expensive. Supposedly nitrocellulose and other chemicals are in short supply, but the chemicals used to make nitrocellulose have always been pretty cheap and readily available. Some industry insiders say that stringent EPA regulations have caused manufacturers to either close plants, or charge a lot more, so electing a pro-gun President who is also against excess government regulations helped matters prior to 2020, and if Trump is re-elected, it could help us again.

Then there is the increased cost of brass, bullet metal, primers, and powder due to wars, conflicts, and foreign policy disasters of the past 3 1/2 years with Biden and company. Supplying Ukraine for all that time, along with stockpiling for a conflict with China due to poor Democrat leadership isn't helping. Trump quickly stomped ISIS into submission, was intelligently winding down our presence in Afghanistan, and kept Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran from starting any new conflicts. It only took Biden a couple months to screw all that up, even worse than it had been under Obama. And of course, there is still a lot of hoarding by shooters who understand that the Democrats are always doing all they can to restrict supply and increase the costs of shooting through legislation and threat of lawsuits.

Another big factor is the general inflation rate since Biden took office. Because of Bidenomics, every dollar you had saved in 2020 has now lost about 20% of its' value. The dollars you earn now purchase less overall. This affects manufacturers too, so when they pay more for raw materials, fuel, energy, transportation, loan interest, regulations, taxes, and wages... then naturally those costs will be passed onto us. Older shooters on fixed incomes will be impacted even more than younger shooters who may still see at least some wage increases over time. That's why Ronald Reagan famously said, "Inflation is the cruelest tax of all."


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Re the low noise-low recoil loads: I've always lived and shot in the Upper Midwest at clubs that continue shooting during the winter when it can get very cold. If you reduce velocity too much, you may find yourself with loads that start sounding real poofy (I've noticed that with guys shooting the factory low noise-low recoil loads when the temps drop below freezing.) I believe it was the late Bob Brister who wrote that the best recoil reducer is good hearing protection. Will also keep your ears warmer in the winter.

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