doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Purdey DR in 450/400 2 7/8"

After the usual (and long) wait required for importing from the UK, I have in hand a beautiful Purdey double rifle in 450/400 2 7/8"s. Through a quirk of luck, Buffalo Arms had brass in stock, and now that I've cast the chambers, more brass and bullets are inbound.

The rifle was built in 1895 to match an earlier gun, and sent out in-the-black initially, and returned for engraving. Black powder proofs.

* Regulated with 31⁄2 drams of No. 6 Black Powder and Eley’s papered bullet
* Sighted with half of the bead in the bottom edge of the spot to strike centrally at 100 & 200 yards
* Barrels 28" of Whitworth steel
* Weight 7lbs, 13oz, LOP 14.75"

The condition is quite nice, almost new. All finishes are original.

A kind gentleman on another forum was nice enough to post the Eley shop drawings for this round, which is nice, as Cartridges of the World fails to mention it at all. Their drawing confirms that the base case is the 450 BPE 3 1/4" straight case, necked down and trimmed. Bullets are 230grn LRNs, copper-tubed and paper patched. Apparently a 255gr solid point was also offered. Patched diameter is .410", bare bullet is .403". The blue print even defines the patch dimensions (0.80" high, 2.7" long, 0.002" thick white paper)

I will now commence teaching myself yet again how to paste images....

[img]https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/oo201/returnspring/IMG_3341_oYhsHQuoSDjuDzArvw6CrE.HEIC[/img]

(this might be too large an image. not sure. working with a Photobucket for the first time in years. had been using imgur but their UI keeps changing.)

CJF,

I saw that gun and it is a great gun. The originality is outstanding. I have a 3.25” rifle finished in Aug 1895. This is the original load data:

Charge: 90 Grains, No. 6 powder, over a card & felt wad
Bullet: Papered Eley
Case: 3¼in. solid drawn

I’m using NfB loads and still working on it. Hopefully, you’ll get yours up and shooting well.

Ken

Thanks Ken. It's rather surprising that my rifle uses the shorter cases but calls for 3.5 drams or 96 grains of No. 6 powder. It's cool that yours was also made in the same year. Have you posted pics?

Chris

Here are some more pics. Note that the removable striker discs are still blue and unmarred, and the checkering and engraving are super sharp. The only defect I've seen so far is it looks like the left lock plate was removed or re-inserted poorly and some of the grain at the back of the mortice looks off. Still, I hope I look this good when I'm 129 years old.

Chris,

Your pictures are great! I also like the steel buttplate treatment. My gun still has the original recoil pad. Here’s a poor picture:



Ken

Wow, Chris, that’s an amazing rifle! I can’t believe the high condition. It’s funny earlier today I was admiring the Purdey rifle at the link below. Their rose and scroll engraving is unmatched. Let us know how the loading and shooting goes.

https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...bores-like-new--cas.cfm?gun_id=101788828

Very nice Chris!
Hope you can get it going by next springs DR match in Tennessee.
I recently traded a Purdey DR for an Alexander Henry DR - long story, but I’ll tell next time we meet.
Congratulations

Ken - looks like a great rifle. I have case envy...mine came with a decent leather/oak/brass case, but nothing original. I love how the Purdey rifle cases have those boxed cutouts in the lid to allow room for the front and rear sights.

Earlyriser - thank you for the kind worlds. It is a looker. Re that Purdey on GI, I love the way it looks...a beauty.

Rick - I sure hope I can get it going by then. I've never been to that DR match. Is that for hammer and hammerless doubles? Looking forward to seeing your AH. I have one; lots and lots of original finish and pretty wood, but a plain unengraved rifle.

I loaded up 10 rounds. I don't have proper dies yet, just borrowed 450/400 3.25" dies. Thankfully cases didn't need sizing and all I needed was to expand the mouths slightly (using a 43 Spanish expander) and seat the bullet. Load is 96gr of Swiss 1.5g with just bees wax foundation between the powder and LRN gas checked bullets from Buffalo Arms. These weigh 244-246gr on my scale vs 250gr as described on the website. Diameter is .408".

Will wait till Sunday or Monday to try the range as we have guests this weekend and Debby dumped a ton of rain here in NC.

So initial 10 rounds were decent but not great. Roughly 3” group, consistently right of POA about 3”. Not crossing. Range only 30 yards.

I suspect a portion of the poor accuracy and large group was my shooting. I can shoot sub 1” groups with irons on a 22LR at that distance but I’m wondering if I’m anticipating the recoil with the 450/400. I brought along a little BSA martini and shot that between sessions w the Purdey and that was fine.

I’ve not heard of a double shooting to one side only before.

The ejectors worked perfectly.

CJF
Since the rifle shoots consistently right of POA, I suggest the "fix" is in the sights. The size of the groups is likely to improve with load development and more experience with the rifle.
Mike

I have a single 360 Nitro which with my first cautious loads shot high and left. As I approached the original velocity with the 300 grain bullets the groups came down and right and tightened up. When I give her the last 100-150 fps I fully anticipate the shots will be right on the sights and as tight as they will get.

This makes me wonder if you are right handed or left handed? And the same for CJF, right or left?

In my one experience with regulating a double rifle, I did have a right-left issue. Just worked on convergence (which does involve right and left, but not together for both barrels, of course).

I'm right handed.

Firing position was standing, elbows on a bench, rifle held normally (not a death grip and no significant pulling by the forward hand to bring the butt to the shoulder. Just an easy hold.

I believe I'm close to the original factory (Eley) load the rifle was regulated for. Will try patching next.

This rifle is in nearly new condition with a new and unmarred breach face, so it presumably should still shoot to its original regulated point of aim. The front sight is not adjustable. The rear has a screw and witness mark. I doubt it would move with the screw there. The witness mark is ever so slightly off by the width of a fine chisel blade. I have not figured out if its slight drift would lead to a shift to the right for impact. Will evaluate that at next range session. But I'm not confident the rear can be or should be moved yet.

Chris

CJF,
Without seeing your particular rifle, the screw in the rear sight suggests it is intended to be loosened prior to adjustment, then re-tightened afterward. You didn't say which side of the witness mark the rear sight is on. If the sight is on the right side of the mark, realigning them will likely help matters, but maybe not enough.
Mike

Ken - If I'm right, your rifle was sold by Cowen's a few years back. It is 4 digits before a 450/400 2 7/8"s Purdey double sold by Champlin in 2019. That rifle was 7lbs 7oz. Mine is a quarter pound heavier, with 1" longer barrels. Yours looks to be 28" barrels, and 4oz heavier than mine, and regulated with 6gr less No.6. I suspect yours is a little more comfortable to shoot. All 3 of these are from 1895 (mine went out in the black that year, and was colored and engraved, then finally completed in 1896.)

Beautiful rifle. Thanks again for sharing it.

I was out at the range for another go at loads for the Purdey. This time I used 96gr of 2Fg Swiss, under a 1/4" grease cookie of beeswax and Crisco and a 210gr JHP by Hornady for the 41 magnum. Large pistol primers.

I also tried again with the .406" 245gr LRN bullets, unpatched. Still nothing special there. Need to carefully patch those up to .410" and see if that helps.

Performance was great at 30 yards for the jacketed lighter bullet, as shown below.

For others shooting double rifles with black powder, are you swabbing the bore at all between pairs? How about making sure the rifle barrels have cooled?

Yes, I bought the gun at Cowan’s. It has 28” barrels and a 15 1/4” and weighs 8lbs 1 1/4oz. It was regulated for 90 grains. There is no mention in the records on bullet weight. Nick Harlow assumes it was for a lighter eley pp bullet.

As far as a case, this one was fitted out with everything and was for the 2 3/8” gun. Purdey Raj

Ken

I do not clean between pairs with a BPE DR. It's not necessary with a correct wad column/grease cookie with a period paper wrapped bullet.
We are talking hunting accuracy here - these are not bench rest rifles, a 4" group at 100 yards (3R/3L) would have been considered very good when your rifle was built.

Thanks Mike. The reason I'm asking is not because I want to make a double into a benchrest gun, but because I'm trying to reduce variability in my results testing loads for regulation. That may not make sense to anyone but my squirrel brain.