doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com 43 Mauser Double Rifle

Or at least we think that's what it is. What do the proofs say? Black powder or Nitro? What bullet would be appropriate?

https://postimg.cc/gallery/hXQT2zL

More photos. 7-1/4 pound hand detachable sidelock gun with 28" barrels

https://postimg.cc/gallery/CpXy7KF

Vol423,
Your nice rifle was proofed between 1893 and 1911. The 58/50 is the gauge measurement of the rifle barrel's bore (not groove or bullet) diameter. This measurement translates to 10.92mm. The actual groove diameter can be found by "slugging" the bore or when you make a chamber cast, have it extended into the bore. From the marks in the photos, it seems to be black powder proofed, but that does not mean it cannot be used with appropriate "nitro for black" loads.
Mike

Thanks Mike.

Where would I go to find "nitro for black" loads?

Vol423,
The first thing to do is to determine the actual cartridge the rifle is chambered for. If it is actually chambered for 43 Mauser (11.15x60R), the last commercial cartridges I know of are the ones by Dominion CIL from Canada. They are no longer loaded but are still sometimes found in older gun stores or larger gun shows. They are usually only found 1 or 2 boxes at a time and are expensive when you do find them. Also, the CIL cases are of the "balloon head" type, which require special procedures to prevent, or at least slow down case head separation. If you can't find any ammo, the best way is to load your own. Bell made cases (solid head), but they are also hard to find. Cases can be made from 45-90 Winchester. It is fortunate that some black powder silhouette shooters created enough demand that Starline makes 45-90 cases, from time to time. The 43 Mauser cases have an unusual base, known as the "Mauser Base", but the 45-90 case head can be reformed (with a good bit of work) to approximate the Mauser Base. By case forming carefully to locate the shoulder to headspace on it, instead of the rim, the 45-90 cases can be used without reforming the head. The 45-90 rims will need to be reduced in diameter, however.
If a chamber cast shows the rifle is not 11.15x60R, but one of the many cartridges based on the Mauser base case, you won't be able to find ammo (black powder, nor nitro) and will have to load your own or find a custom handloader. If the actual cartridge uses a case shorter than 52mm long with a Mauser base, you can make them from 45-70 or 40-65 cases instead of 45-90.
Good luck,
Mike

Certain vintages of the CIL brass have a habit of cracking from the rim to to primer pocket. Close inspection is advised.

HalfaDouble,
You are absolutely correct. I experienced complete head separation with CIL cases of unknown ancestry. At first, I wondered if the cause was mercuric primers but found out they were non-mercuric. Then I read where someone else opined that the "bad cases" were counterfeit cases made by "sand casting". Because of the way the brass looked in the break, I can see how they may have come to that conclusion. I concluded that it would not be possible to economically sand cast them, if it would even be possible at all. I concluded that since the cartridges headspace on the rim and the chambers were over length, if the cases had been sized back to the original dimensions the shoulder would be "set back" significantly. Doing this a couple times could cause separation, even with "solid head cases" and the CIL cases were "ballon head". I decided to sacrifice one of my rare boxes of factory ammo to be sure the cases were "once fired". By setting the sizing die to "kiss" the fired case's shoulder, I then was head spacing on the shoulder (instead. of the rim). I have not lost a case since I started this procedure, but that doesn't mean I won't lose the next one. Now I size all my cases this way whether they are rimmed, rimless, or belted and have had no more problems.
Mike

What a beautiful rifle! I'm in somewhat of the same boat, getting materials together for what-I-assume is a 43 Mauser rifle. I need to cast the chamber and slug the bore, but the prior owner "pinky swears" it's a 43 Mauser.

If you search "43 Mauser" on the Buffalo Arms website, you'll see dies, brass and loaded rounds. They are often out of stock, but I kept looking and bought Redding dies, RCBS #22 shell holder, some Bertram brass and bullets. This was two years ago and sadly haven't done anything yet but hope to this winter - just like last winter....

The shell holder was recommended due to the odd case head of the cartridge, which is thin towards the edge as Der Ami stated above.

A few Double Gun Journals (START THE MAGAZINE AGAIN please!!!!) have nitro-for-black load suggestions for the 43 Mauser and other black powder cartridges. I will endeavor to find those and list them here. The loads suggest a dacron filler. I purchased a bag of that from Michael's craft store.

Hope to find the articles and post the suggested nitro-for-black loads, may take a bit.

Good luck with that beautiful rifle!

Mt Al,
This is worthy of a whole new thread. Since the 11.15x60R was the first of the officially adopted German centerfire cartridges, a great many cartridges during the following years were based on its case in different calibers. The lack of markings or markings that are not well understood makes reliable identification of the cartridge very difficult. This is compounded by the fact that these cartridges were introduced during a time protocols concerning bullet to barrel diameters were being established and were different than those in use today. You can be sure that, in the end, you can find cases and bullets that will work but may have to name it yourself. This is not as bad as it sounds, since you won't have to match your rifle to any available ammunition.
Mike

I had a 43 mauser Rolling Block a 8 or 9 years ago and esily procured components from Buffalo Arms. I have seen 2 or 3 doubles for sale on Gun Broker in the last few years. They were apparently somewhat popular at one point in time. I have also seen combo guns available in the caliber.