doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGuns For Sale @ doublegunshop.com WTB: Drilling for an Alaskan project gun

I live in Alaska. I have long thought that the ideal brush gun for hunting and bear protection would be a drilling. One can load slugs in the shotgun tubes for fast-handling bear defense (essentially a double-rifle) and still have a rifle for short-range game taking. (Every animal I have taken in Alaska, including moose, caribou, brown bear, and black bear have been within 100 yards.) It would also be useful for taking grouse, ptarmigan, and hares for camp meat.

I often hunt with a fine Muchler drilling in 16x16x8x57JR, and have taken caribou and bears with her. But she is too nice to carry in inclement weather or heavy brush. The 8x57JR round is also a bit light for moose and bear.

I am seeking a drilling chambered in 12 or 16 gauge with a rifle chambered in either .308, .30-06, 7X65R, 9.3x74R, 11.15mm or other rifle of SUITABLE FOOT POUNDS for ethically taking large game. I am not afraid of obsolete rounds as I have reloaded for obsolete rounds before, but a readily-available cartridge is preferred.

The gun I seek should be a FIELD gun - one that has been used and is not a safe queen. Neither should it be a collector piece. Maybe the finish is worn. Maybe the stock has dings and scuffs. It could be a guild gun without a marker’s name. And it does not require a scope. In fact, a lack of scope mounts is preferred as it will be a sub-100 yard gun where iron sights are used.

Although the finish is not important, the gun must be mechanically sound, with all there locks and the safety in working order. And it should be tight on face. I am reasonably competent with minor gun repairs, so small issues such as a barrel dent, missing sight, or small crack should not be an issue.

It CANNOT be an exposed hammer gun. I want hammerless only.

It CANNOT be an under-lever gun. I want a traditional top lever action only.

Obviously, the gun I seek should not be a super fine piece. I would like something in the price range of a quality, modern bolt action rifle with a quality scope. I’m open to negotiations, so please don’t think I’m being cheap. I know what drillings are worth. But I’m not wanting an expensive piece.

I realize that I’m being picky and this a long shot, but I have a vision of what I want and I’m enjoying the search for just the right gun. I recently located the perfect gun for me only to discover it is in Canada and they won’t ship to the USA! I’ve been watching Gun Broker for a long time, but the gun I seek hasn’t popped up yet. The drilling I already own I found on this forum, so I’m hopeful one of you has a gun for me.

PM me if you have a drilling that might suit my needs. Thanks for taking the time to read this long post.

Have the owner of the gun you like ship it to a Canadian dealer who will ship to a USA FFL dealer. I notice that you regard the 11.15 as acceptable. Do you have a source of ammo for the 11.15X65 caliber? I have a Sauer 11.15X65 barrel on a drilling but no source of ammunition.

I have used drillings and combos for years. I suggest only rimmed cases, as extraction is very difficult with rimless cases. My choice for rifle barrel in AK would be 9.3X74R; for shotgun: 12 gauge. If you don't like greener side safes (I hate them) a Merkel or later Krieghoff are probably you best choice. They have tang safeties. Sauers have side safes but are cheaper and more readily available. If you want a scope buy a gun with one already installed. Adding one will cost $1500 or more.

Crockett
I have hunted for around 60 years with various drillings and have pretty strong feelings about them based on that experience. I find 12 ga. drillings too heavy and wide to handle very lively. Also, you didn't mention a desired barrel length, but I find a 60 cm barrel length to the most useful. Meffert was known for making what you referred to as field grade (plain) drillings and were one of the first to use Dural receivers, resulting in pretty lightweight drillings. Unfortunately, there are not as many Meffert drillings around as others. I think your best chance to find would be a Sauer & Sohn (prewar or very early post war Suhl made), they also made some pretty plain ones along with more ornate ones. I believe you would be most satisfied with a Sauer or Meffert 16x16-9.3x74R with 60 cm barrels. While I believe a drilling is most useful when it is fit with a scope in either claw or swing mounts and a rimfire einstecklauf (insert barrel) I understand your reasons to avoid them and since it is your money, you get to buy whatever you want. You might want to check with T&G German-Gun- Imports, or Simpson Ltd. I have no relationship with either company.
Good luck with your search.
Mike

eight bore - Thanks for the suggestion on shipping to a Canadian FFL. I do not have a source for 11.5 reloading components. I did some research on reloading for the 11.5 rounds using a .45-90 case as a base and molding some bullets, but it was only preliminary research. I don’t have anything chambered in 11.5 at the moment. If I found something in that size, I would have to do some digging.

Vol423 - Thanks for the suggestion on sticking to rimmed cases. I have never used a rimless break action, but can see how they might cause issues. I agree the 9.3x74R would be a great round. I’m finding few drillings in that chambering and they are expensive.

Der Ami - I agree that a 12 ga double would be unwieldy. I much prefer 16 ga. But I have found that most drillings with larger rifles tend to accompany 12 ga bores. I think a 16x16x9.3x74 would be ideal, I’m just not finding many available, especially at a price I’m willing to pay. I appreciate the suggestions on vendors and I will check those out.

https://www.proxibid.com/Guns-Milit...NAL-BOX/lotInformation/88382016#topoflot

https://www.proxibid.com/Guns-Milit...X57-JRS/lotInformation/88382015#topoflot 8x57 JRS will have no problem with a moos out to at least 150 yards.

Thanks Mike. Those are both beautiful, but a bit too beautiful for the conditions I would be hunting in. I’m looking for something less refined or at least more used.

I’ve seen a few 8x57JRS guns, but the gun I have is an 8x57JR and I don’t want any .323 bullets in my house for fear I might load an oversized bullet in a .318 bore. I keep .318 bullets on hand for a couple 8x57JR guns. A 9.3x74R would be an excellent round for Alaska.

Crockett I live in Sterling. I bought a double hammergun in .450x3 1/4" a couple of months ago. The bores are in great condition but someone didn't take care of it and the outside of the receiver and locks have lots of pitting. Just right to take out after a moose in our less than perfect September conditions. Going with me next fall.

Where are you getting the .319 bullets?

Try here

https://www.buffaloarms.com/search/?q=318%20bullets

Mike, That sounds great! Best wishes on the hunt. Maybe we can get together sometime. I’m in Wasilla.

Buffalo Arms has .319 bullets sometimes. I have some in 150, 170 and 196 grain. You can also check with Old West Scrounger. I also found some from Woodleigh years ago. A local bullet maker made me a couple hundred lead gas checks that work well too. But my biggest haul was a guy in Seward who was liquidating his stock and sold me about twenty boxes of loaded Sellier & Belloit 8x57JR ammo. I will pull those bullets and reload them to at a higher velocity since the S&B stuff is pretty anemic.

I’m thinking you may have to broaden your search.

I know what you want, and why you want it. That piece would be far, far more common in Eastern Europe, than in the US. You might have to start looking on European websites, and think about hiring an importer, here in the states, to move this project along. Just a casual observation I’ve made over the years is that drillings seem to sell quickly and for a premium here, maybe just because they are not very common. There once were specific laws regarding what ammunition you could have on your person during what season (rifled slugs prior to or post deer season were verboten in Minnesota, there may be others) that would limit the versatility of a drilling in these parts. Don’t misunderstand me, in a place like Canada, Alaska, or the Kamchatka peninsula, I get it.

Years ago there was a Canadien gunsmith who did work for American clients, and brought guns back and forth through Port Huron, if I am not mistaken. Can’t remember his name, but, a guy like that might be useful to complete a sale with a gun that was located in Canada.

Good luck. I hope you can find what you are looking for.

Best,
Ted

There is no need to involve Canadians in any transaction. Your gun may be shipped directly to an FFL holder in Alaska (I was a dealer for years...)

That may be totally correct, but, fails to recognize that dealers, both Canadian and American, often have no desire to involve themselves with the intricacies of international law involving anything firearms related.

Seen it, first hand.

I was an importer for 20+ years.

Best,
Ted

The OP stated that his seller will not ship to the USA. Last time I looked, Alaska was in the USA.

Thanks for all the advice. I have started looking at a couple Canadian websites and have asked the US Customs what is needed to import a gun. I don’t know of any Eastern European dealers so if anyone has a website to share, please do.

I’m watching at a couple dealers here in the US. I think patience is the name of the game. Eventually, what I want will pop up.

It isn't difficult to import from Canada You need to employ a Type 8 FFL. He will know what to do. There is an outfit in Canada called Prophet River who has dealers set up in both countries. Try them first. Also contact THE ATTIC from North Dakota They sell on gunbroker and buy in Europe. They might be able to do a custom search for you.

While I agree that 16 gauge drillings are lighter and livelier, 12 gauge guns are easier to find ammo for. Get a gun with 2-3/4" chambers.


Also don't expect a drilling to shoot slugs well. Most aren't regulated with them. My favorite Merkel 16x16x 9.3X74R was regulated for Brenneke 2-1/2" slugs in the right barrel. Can't kit a thing with the left barrel. Brenneke still sells 2-1/2" 16 ga slugs. I have 50 boxes of them.

Crockett,
Don't worry too much about carrying a pretty gun to the woods, modern rust preventives are much better than the old ones, also "roll up/foldup" poplin gun sleeves (even homemade) take up very little room in a pocket and provide a surprising amount of protection. The major difference between 8x57IR and 8x57IRS is better bullets are available in/for 8x57IRS, as they are very similar, ballistically, with a small advantage going to the IRS. The "H-Mantel" and "TUG" type bullets are much preferred over the simple "soft point" when large or dangerous game is involved. Some 8x57IR guns can be used with .323" bullets, if the chamber neck is large enough that a .323" bullet will easily slip into a case fired in the rifle. The bullet being "jammed" in a case that can't expand to release it is the main cause of excess pressure. A .323" bullet fired in a .318" barrel will be .318" by the time it travels its own length in the barrel, as long as it can start moving before the pressure builds up (the actual groove diameter in many "IR" barrels is over .318", anyway). Also, "cup and core" bullets can be sized to .318" from .323", but not monolithic or partition bullets. Since you have a gun that will work, you can take the time necessary to find one that is ideal. Good luck in your search.
Mike

Thanks Vol423. I will checked into those Canada-related options you suggested. FYI, Prophet River will not import into the US. They recommended BORDERVIEW and they will import into our country. Good to know. I have a pretty substantial cache of 16 ga ammo because everyone seems to be “I used to have one” at guns shows and sells their unwanted 16 ga shells cheap. My drilling shoots the Brenneke slugs fairly well, but I wouldn’t trust them for hunting accuracy. I’m only interested in slugs for up close and personal effect on charging bears. And I hope I never need to do that!


Thanks Mike. That’s some good stuff to think about. I do see many more 8x57JRS guns available.

Borderview is a real good operator. They know what they are doing.

Here's a Krieghoff in 7x65R and 16 gauge and comes with a 22 mag insert for one of the shotgun barrels and a nice Zeiss scope. If you'd resell the expensive scope you'd have a reasonably priced drilling.

Here is the website of a buddy of mine, I have known him for over 30 years and he gets my thumbs up. His two sons have started up a gunsmithing side to the business after they had finished their 4 years of training in Ferlach Austria.

https://www.pickert-jagd.de/

Simpsons just listed a 12ga/12ga/9.3x74R sidelock.