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#6666 01/11/05 10:51 AM
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Gents,

I believe my H&H paradox is a magnum gun. It is proofed for 750 grain bullets. There is information that came with the gun that indicates the bullets should be loaded with 33 grains of cordite powder. The chambers are 2 3/4. I do not want to load for this gun. Do you think the new H&H paradox ammo would be suitable for this gun, or do you think I should contact Dixie Slugs with the specs and have them make up some rounds? Does anyone have contact information for Dixie Slugs.

Regards,

Max

#6667 01/11/05 03:57 PM
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Proper moulds for the 750 gr. Fosbery Bullet are available from a maker in Austrailia. I don't have the email address right now, but you might PM Marrikai to get it. Holland and Holland has a daunting task ahead of them in regards to ammunition. They must make cartridges that will regulate in Paradox guns they made a hundred years ago AND regulate a gun they are building now for use with the same ammunition. My best guess is that you would have the greatest success by loading for your own gun. Best of luck. The Paradox is a wonderful gun.

Best regards,
David

#6668 01/12/05 11:34 AM
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David,

If I understand your comment corrently,would H&H be in the process of developing ammo for my paradox? If this is the case I will wait for them. Is this the case?

Regards,

Max

#6669 01/12/05 06:33 PM
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Max,

Usually guns that are regulated for a particular velocitiy will not regulate for a bullet of a different velocity, but sometimes it works. What does it say on your barrels, "Nitro Paradox" or "Magnum Paradox" Can you give the serial #?? Whatever you do, please don't shoot the Dixie slugs!! Reloading these is absolutley simple - even I can do it.
John

#6670 01/12/05 08:14 PM
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Max,

I think that H&H had two loadings for the 12 Bore Paradox. JAZ may have better information than I. As long as the regulation of your gun has not been fooled with over the years it should regulate with modern loads of the 750 gr. Fosbery projectile at 1050 fps., in theroy. There are other factors that affect regulation in the Paradox, such as the wad used, that do not apply to double rifles. I agree with JAZ, load for your own gun. There is some trial and error in getting the proper wad to work, but it is not technically difficult. They were, after all, made to be loaded by hand in the most remote corners of the world.

Best regards,
David

#6671 01/13/05 09:27 AM
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Jaz,

The serial number is 15910. I will check the proof on the barrel tonight and post the information tomorrow. I believe it is marked 750 cordite magnum.

#6672 01/13/05 12:18 PM
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Jaz,

Just got off the phone with H&H in New York. They checked the serial # on my paradox and advised me that it is a nitro paradox. They also indicated that the new commercial ammo for for the new paradox is forthcoming. It will have a .740 grain bullet and they indicated that it should be good to shoot in my gun for relative accuracy up to 100 yards.

Regards,

Max

#6673 01/15/05 10:05 AM
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The "nitro Paradox "appeared first with Serial #15632 in 1903. If you gun is a "magnum nitro Paradox" it would most likely say it, but to check weigh it and if it is over 8 lbs, it probably is a mganum. Your gun is fairly late about 1912, I have 15881 madeis 1910.

John

#6674 01/16/05 12:50 AM
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Gentlemen:
A late post, apologies (busy week!), however for those who have not seen these pics before:

My 12-bore Fosbery mold (when new) from Jim Allison at Cast Bullet Engineering (CBE) in Australia:



A Fosbery projectile as cast from the CBE mold:



The catalogue of molds available from CBE is here:
http://users.bigpond.com/ammodump/cbe.html

Jim can be contacted at this address: jim.cbe@bigpond.com

It appears that many contemporary users of Paradox-type guns are confused about the correct projectile size for accurate shooting. As published in the Double Gun Journal last year, Ross Seyfried finally "discovered" the "secrets" of accurately shooting his Paradox, ie that the projectile should be only a thou or so under the smooth-bore diameter (never-mind that Graeme Wright published this fact in his book several years before!).

The Fosbery projectile is relatively soft when cast from 95:5 lead/tin alloy, and has (relatively) narrow driving bands: it was designed to swage down considerably in the choke's forcing-cone before being engraved by the rifling. Tim knows this too, though I fully respect his choice to shoot projectiles sized to the rifled-choke rather than the bore: as he says, once a ring-bulge appears behind the chokes, it is all over. Sacrificing a little potential accuracy to ensure the longevity of a valuable old rifle needs no excuse.

However...! The fact that H&H are willing to recommend their new cartridges (bullet dia .740?) be fired in max's nitro Paradox supports my contention that the practice is just as valid today as it was a century ago. If the bullet is cast 95:5 and has the Fosbery design, it should be safe to shoot at bore diameter.

The Dixie slugs are a coat of a different color, having harder alloy and smaller diameter than a traditional Fosbery. They are no doubt a marvellous modernization of the concept, but should probably be restricted to modern barrels IMHO.

Hope this helps.

#6675 01/16/05 12:04 PM
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Hello Marrakai,

I haven't visited with you for some time. It's been busy here too.

I know that Ross Seyfried doesn't need me to defend him and I know, too, that there is a certain amount of professional jealosy among some writers. The DGJ article that you refer to was a re-write of an article that appeared in either Rifle magazine or Handloader several years ago, before Graeme Wright's book was published. I have both versions of the article and there was very little editing done between printings. I suspect that Ross submitted the article to DGJ out of his file and they did the editing.

In any case I am hungary for anything in print about the Paradox and anxiously await the Roger Lake/David Baker book.

I hope all is well with you.

Best regards,
David

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