doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com *Help! Lefever Syracuse 16ga?

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Miller thanks for checking, I will be getting those repo catalogs for reference. I wonder if your top rib was cleaned smooth when they blued the barrels?

Eightbore, I've decided these early Lefever's are like finger prints, no two are the same and the many distinct variables are proof that Lefever was in a constant state of change. Below is an enlarged scanned image of the 16ga barrels, it doesn't show the all the details of the top rib pattern but you can see most of it. This must have been done by a machine or press, as it would have taken a person forever to engrave. Does your 10ga rib look like this?

OD
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O-D;
I have wondered about that on my rib myself, but of course have no way of knowing. It would have had to have been very light I believe for no traces to be left, but if that's the way most of this era were finished this one probably was too.
That on yours looks much like the same patern as the later flat engine turning. The cuter would have to be set on an angle & cut one direction only, then tilted to an opposite angle & the other direction cut. This actually appears as if a very small dia cutter was used & more than one pass per side. The flat ones could be cut in one pass I think.

OD, no, the rib on my F Grade #10,807 is not like the rib you picture. The pattern is a ribbon with well defined, cut side borders, with the engraved center ribbon occupying about seven eighths of the rib width. The engraved portion, probably done with a mill of some kind, consists of eighth inch sections of engraved straight lines running lengthwise alternating with very much more lightly engraved areas slightly less than an eighth of an inch. The slightly under one quarter inch patterns alternate for the full length of the rib. Although done with some kind of mill or set of cutters, they appear hand done and are beautiful. I don't know when the flat turned rib was introduced, but the pattern on 10,807 must be a transition from smooth concave ribs to the full turned rib. It is the only one like it I have seen, but then I haven't seen a lot of Lefevers. The pictured gun is the only other concave rib I have seen with a pattern cut into it. Murphy

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Miller & Eightbore,

Here is a flipside view of the 16 "E" concave rib that shows straight horizontal lines running full length in the zigzag pattern. The other image is of the later 1894 "GE" showing the flat machined type rib, and they are indeed different patterns. It's interesting that Lefever went to a flat rib so early on when other American makers like Parker stayed with the concave rib until production ended nearly a 1/2 century later. I've seen a few flat and high solid rib Parker's, but they were special order...... Murphy can you post a photo of your F Grade rib?

O-D
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No, I can't post a photo, but I am sure enjoying yours. My gun has the same defined side borders on the rib pattern as yours, but the pattern inside the border is different. There must not be many of those around. Elliott doesn't seem to address them.

O-D;
Will try & explain what I am saying. The flat patern can be reproduced with a single pointed cutter having a diameter just bigger than rib width. Axis of rotation would be perpendicular to rib surface. feed per revolution would be such as to give the desired spacing between the arcs & also to have the trailing edge track the same cut in center as the leading edge. This creates that median & the outer arcs form the little side diamonds.
On a concave rib to use a cutter such as this it has to be tilted of perpendicular so the leading edge follows the concavity. The trailing edge then would not touch at all thus the cross cut is not made. Is hard to say positively from the picture, but appears perhaps a smaller dia cutter may have been tipped & several passes made following the rib concavity. Thus it "May" be it could still be described as "Engine Turned" but in a different manner & with a different pattern than the flat rib.

I finally got some pics taken of my Lefevers. Sorry they are so large, its better to see the detail. I was mistaken on my serial numbers. My guns are:

10540 F on frame 10540 E on Barrels 10ga 31"

11642F on frame,11642 on barrels 10ga 29 7/8" Stippeled top, Notice the concave shape from the rib comes back over the top clear back into the lever,unlike 10540. This is especially nice.

These two guns have the following adjustable parts:
Hinge Ball
Forend spring
Adjustment in the forend that contacts the cocking rods
Forend lug adjustment to push the forend into the action
Screw in barrel lug to wedge the lug wider
Screws to adjust triggers
Bushed firing pins
Screw to turn automatic safety on and off
Screw to put more pressure on the top bolt if lockup is loose

32753F on action,32753 and 30775(on left tube) on barrels 12ga ejector 30 13/16"

35776H on action, 35776 on flats,35645 on lug reinforcement,35645E on left tube 12ga 30" E grade ejector chain damascus barrels on H grade nonejector action.

36333G on action,36333G on barrels GE 12ga 29 7/8"

59838 DS () on action, 59838 on barrels, DS 12ga 30"

These guns only have the ball,saftey and forend spring adjustment.