doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Catalogue on line now

Gavin Gardiner has a catalogue on line too now (Dec 11th auction) Holt's is building and looks pretty close to finished as well (Dec 13th).

As for Charlton Hall, if anyone does turn up, I'll be pleased to look at any guns there with you, measure any barrels, advise as to condition and generally talk about the pros, cons etc of any of the guns on offer.

I'll do condition reports on guns as I do in London for anyone interested.

I would advise agains buying from the catalogue 'sight unseen' at Charlton Hall in the same way that I advise people not to buy off-catalogue at any other auctions. Not because you will get rubbish, but because you need to appreciate what is on offer before you can decide what it is worth to you.

In essence I think the Charlton Hall idea is a good one. It is giving Americans access to a load of guns annually which they can see, buy and take home if they wish.

Every time I go to an auction I see stuff I do not want to buy and do not bid on. Most of it sells to someone who has a use for it and pays what his budget tells him makes sense.

Commission is always an issue to factor-in. what it is is published in advance. Currently all London auctions charge 20% buyer's commission plus 17% VAT on that commission. Christies charge 25% + VAT.

Buyers just need to do their homework and some simple maths before the sale.

Maybe it is me but I find the tone of these exchanges less than friendly and I really see no reason for it. I certainly would not say 'shut up and stay away'. I'd say - if you have questions, ask and if you want to see what is there better, come and have a look.

I like auction viewings even when I buy nothing. It is a great chance to handle and evaluate a wide range of interesting guns of all types and serves as an education.

I'll be at Holt's, Gavins and Charlton Hall - hope to see one or two faces in the States, as I always do in London.

Dig, I believe I can speak for many here, your reply is seemingly well thought out and completely consistent with what we would have expected from you, based on reading your past posts and your excellent writings in DGJ of your UK auction experiences. Nicely put.

Collectors here are quite accustomed to paying "buyer premiums" on their bids. That is not an issue. The issue of collecting a state sales tax on an out of state sale is a problem. You may not have that situation in the UK. We do object to that. We also object to a couple of the statements in Charlton Hall's fine print that are not at all consistent with other firearms auction houses. I have bought by absentee bid for several years from at least four national auction houses, none of them have those very odd "disclaimers."

There are a number of auction houses in the US that do a most excellent job with their offerings. I guess most of use just expected this one would perform in a similar manner. The post above from Dave K explains our problem with George L. I am still planning on attending, unless something unforseen comes up. I'll clarify the point concerning collecting out of state sales tax on absentee bids while there, that's just not done. Your business of offering first hand inspection reports may be a good thing for many, but it's a bit uncommon here. Not to say it's not a good idea, particularly for inexperienced buyers, but it's new here as far as I am aware. I'll bet it would catch on here with a good team of state-side "inspectors" in your employ. Charlton Hall's policy stating "Since we are not professional conservators or restorers, we urge you to inspect each lot yourself or have your agent do so on your behalf. Prospective buyers should satisfy themselves as to condition and must understand that any statement made by Charlton Hall Galleries, Inc., or its employees is merely a subjective qualified opinion, " stinks. We don't expect them to be professional conservators or restorers, we do expect them to be professional auctioneers, experienced in the sale of sporting arms, and I think that's the bottom line here, they apparently aren't particularly experienced in this field.

You may want to spread your US auction efforts around and not deal only with one auction house. There are others who are very well established in the collector community nationwide and do an excellent job. Perhaps Charlton Hall can learn from all this and be better. Folk who buy oriental rugs, old oil paintingss, and jewelry and such may have a completely different set of expectations than do we gun nuts.

Not trying to stir the pot but I would like to know if the guns on offer are in proof or not.

Thanks for your comments Dig. I collect American Shotguns only
but Plan to learn alot from you and the auction process next
week. Fortunatly I live @ 1 1/2 hours away so I plan to come
Wednesday afernoon,Friday for the lecture, and Saturday for
the sale. Hopefully the Charlton Hall Auction will develope
to point were I can sell guns in the future.
Thanks
Bill McPhail

George, Please send me a catalog. I havnt understood the carping about the catalog, I called about a couple of guns the day I looked at the online catalog and got the info I asked for, no problem. I am planning, unless something comes up, on attending. I guess I'll factor the fees into what I am willing to pay and see what happens......My address is C Kribs, POB 333, Bird City ks 67731...Thanks

I received this message from Charlton Hall ----------

Dear Collector,
Thank you for your interest in our upcoming auction, The Lady's and
Gentleman's Sale: Fine British and American Shotguns, Accessories and
Art and Estate Jewelry and Objects of Vertu, on Saturday, December 8th.
Our specialists will respond to your inquiry as soon as possible
regarding bore and wall measurements for the shotguns. Are there
particular lots to which you would like that information?
State sales tax will not apply as long as the items will be shipped out
of state via a common courier.
We would be happy to send you photos of any of the guns. Please let us
know what lot numbers you would like us to email you.
Best regards,
Client Services Staff

Charlton Hall Galleries, Inc.
912 Gervais Street
Columbia, SC 29201
T: 803-779-5678
F: 803-733-1701
http://www.CharltonHallAuctions.com

-----Original Message-----

I have had 6 emails since this "Lady's & Gentlemans" Sale 1st came onto the Screen. Each "E" has had the same question, Why did'nt this Purdey Trained Gunmaker after fully examining each "Gun" bother to 'Jot Down' the Bore sizes@Proof,and the Min. Wall Thickness's????And Lot 1022 Purdey 12b #12272, is it a 2.1/2"chamber or a 2.3/4" why was it put through Re-Proof? Bore measurements @ 9" from Breech-End would make Mr "Smith" less suspicious of this Vintage Purdey.Another Question that was posed by a Client, Chas. Lancaster #11621 What does"Bores Slightly Pitted" mean. Would the Proof Master in London or Birmingham accept these Barrels if submitted for Re-Proof?? Just thought I would pass a couple of these questions on....David Trevallion, Former Purdey Gunmaker, 1953-1964.

First of all I would like to apologize for my poor choice of words, i.e. "shut.....etc." I was bristled a bit by someone saying that George was "carring baggage, etc." All the ads by me early on was adequately explained long ago. That said, I asked Ron Long the owner of Charlton Hall about the state sales tax. as was stated in a previous post only that which is paid for and collected in South Carolina will be subject to state sales tax. Everything that is shipped out of state by common carrier will not. That is not CH's policy that is state law. For those of you who plan to attend and stay over I checked on a brand new Hampton Inn one-half block away from CH and as of yesterday they still have rooms available. Their info is:

Hampton Inn Downtown Historical District
822 Gervais Street
Columbia, South Carolina 29201
Glen C. Williams - Manager - e-mail: g.williams@hospitalityamerica.com
Telephone (803) 231-2000
FAX (803) 231-2868
web site: http://www.HamptonnnColumbia.com

& no, I am not getting a kick-back from them. Their regular price is $129.00 for a double or king. There are less expensive hotels in the area but not just this close. This Hampton Inn & CH are both located in the VISTA area of Columbia where most of the night life happens to be.

Best Regards, George

A solution has been found for those who found the pictures of the Charlton Hall Sporting Auction inadequate. If you go to http://www.liveauctioneers.com/ click on U.S. ONLY and go to page 11 (now although it will move up as the auction gets closer) & click on "Charlton Hall Gents & Ladies Sporting Sale" you will find lots of very good pictures of each item which can be enlarged. Ron Long asked me to post this for the forum.

We just returned from the first preview & although there was the Columbia Christmas Parade going on in the area at the same time the preview was very well attended. Knowledgeable sporting gun enthuasists were present with good questions and comments. The next preview is scheduled for Wednesday. Diggory and Michael are due to arrive on Tuesday and will be present. The display of guns, mounts, art and ephemera is breathtaking. Ron has had custom hickory cabinets built for the guns and has purchased professional wall thickness and bore gauges to measure the guns.
I will try to post pictures of the auction room next week.

Best to All, George

George it is now on page 10.