doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com winchester model 23 serial #'s

anybody know a source for serial # by year for the 23's? or at least know what letter's the first ones began with? what i'm wondering is, if one has a # of PWK004###, does that mean it's the 4-thousandth whatever m23 made period or did the letters change over time in a similar manner to the post-70's brownings and that's the four thousandth odd gun made in a particular year?

it also struck me as odd that the butt plate carried no markings of any kind. i'm sure it's original. i had 2 of these back when they were being made but one was a golden quail 12 and the other was a classic 20 and i think they both had winchester marked pads.

I don't know about the serial number question, but I distinctly recall seeing Model 23s with a ribbed hard plastic buttplate. My 20 Ga. XTR has the red Winchester recoil pad, as most seem to. Larry Brown wrote a pretty good article on the 23 a few years back in the SS magazine;
the serial numbers may be addressed in it, however I can't find my copy.

i must have missed that issue as i don't recall that article at all. i only buy ssm when there's something in it i'm interested in at the moment and all the ones i did have i sold on ebay.

the one in question is a pigeon grade 12 and the butt plate is as you noted, just horizontal ribs. i tried to remove the white spacer and put it where all white spacers belong but it's apparently glued to the butt plate. LOP is too short anyway but i'll have to have a pad that can be bent to match the curvature as i'm not cutting the stock no matter what. i'll shoot it as is before i do that.

roger

The "Letters" did not change every year. You have the 4XXXth gun.
I have a 12ga. Pigeon Grade Model 23 with a 8XX serial #. It has the black ribbed butt plate with white spacer, which was very easy to remove. It was not glued to the butt plate. All the guns that had a hard black plastic butt plates did not have "Winchester" markings on them.
The 20ga, guns had serial #s that started at PWK200001. I have one with PWK2003XX. It has the black ribbed butt plate with white spacer, also easily removed.

I let Larry used all my catalogs that listed Model 23s, to help him write his article.

The Winchester Model 23 by Larry Brown SS January/February 2004.

THANKS! will have to check the butt plate again but it was sure stuck. i couldn't even get a knife blade between them. the gun's virtually mint but i wonder if some wanker in the past felt the need to make them permanent.

i doubt production quantity was ever all that high, but 4k should put it no later than 2nd year and possibly first.

i would have had that issue of SSM. were several years i ended up with full sets and they sold well on ebay. guess i shoulda kept it. i never cared that much for 23's altho the classic 20 was a sweetheart. but i ended up with this one to get out from under a bad trade figuring that with "winchester" on the barrels it'll never get cheaper. except i intend to shoot the "mint" completely off of it.

roger

The Model 23 XTR Pigeon Grade doubles in 12- and 20-gauge with fixed chokes first appear in the 1979 Winchester catalgue.

In the 1980 Winchester catalogue only the Model 23 XTR Pigeon Grade in 12- and 20-gauge with either 26- or 28-inch fixed choke barrels is offered. By the 1981 catalogue the Model 23 XTR Pigeon Grade Lightweight with a straight grip and 25 1/2 inch fixed choke barrels is added to the line in 12- and 20-gauge. The plastic butt plate with the whiteline spacer is shown on these guns from 1979 through 1981. The 1981 Winchester catalogue shows a Model 23 Pigeon Grade open, and the serial number visible is WK004777. I'd bet the P is hidden by the toplever in the angel of the photo.

The same guns are offered in the 1982 Olin-Winchester over-under and side by side shotgun brochure, but the XTR is dropped from the designations, and the guns are now shown with a thin rubber butt pad.

The 1984 Winchester Classic Doubles catalogue adds the Model 23 Pigeon Grade Winchoke to the line, and the limited (to 500) edition Model 23 Heavy Duck. The 1985 Winchester Classic Doubles catalogue offers the limited (to 500) edition Model 23 Light Duck.

For 1986 the Model 23 Classic in 12-, 20-, 28-gauges and .410-bore is introduced, as well as the Custom two-Barrel Set in 20- and 28-gauge. They also introduced the 12-gauge Golden Quail and still had some Model 23 Light Ducks to unload. I handled the Model 23 Classics at the NRA Convention that year and wasted no time in adding the 28-gauge and the .410-bore to my gun room. I didn't care for the handling of the 20-gauge on the larger frame, so never got the big gauges.

The next catalogue I have is the 25th Anniversary Edition which introduces the Model 23 Custom with plain Model 21 styling and six flush Winchokes in 12-gauge and the Model 23 Golden Quail in .410-bore. On the specifications page they still have Model 23 Light Duck, and 12-gauge Golden Quails to get rid of and they also seem to have found some Model 23 Pigeon Grade Winchokes in 20-gauge?!? The last Winchester Classic Doubles catalogue I have is 1988 which still offers the Model 23 Classics in four gauges, The Custom in 12-gauge, the 20- and 28-guage two-barrel hunting set, and the Golden Quails in 12-gauge and .410-bore.

I can shoot Model 23s fine if they are the first gun I pick up in the morning. Its tougher if you shoot something with a crisp trigger first and then try a Model 23! Even with the ic & mod chokes, the 28-gauge Model 23 Classic is the only 28-gauge I ever ran a 100 straight at skeet with.

i have to work harder to hit with any sxs compared to an o/u, auto or pump and straight grips are even worse. the golden quail i'd have been lucky to shoot myself in the foot with that short, stubby little git. sure was pretty tho. but as you note, if i shoot only sxs's it goes a lot better. unfortunately i usually run thru 200rds or so in 4-5 different guns and the flat doubles always come off the worst. this pigeon grade feels like it'll work tho. the trigger pulls aren't the worst on anything i own. a little long but not gritty or heavy.

was just reading up on the 23's and 101's in dennis adler's book "winchester shotguns". if ever a book were a bunch of poorly written drivel this one is it. it at least gets the years, features, etc correct and has fantastic pictures.

here's a typical comment: "in the 1960's browning and remington owned the superposed market, at least in the united states." REMINGTON?!? he adds both had been producing o/u's since 1931. neglects to mention remington had quit abt 10 yrs later. the whole book is like that. but still has nice pictures.

one reason the GQ12 was so disappointing is winchester shotguns have - for me - always seemed xtrmly easy to hit with, needing nothing more than just looking at the target. the only other winchester i was ever disappointed in was a 101 skeet gun. i was a great conservationist with that gun as i never hit anything moving. never did figure out why as it sure felt "right".

roger

Roger, I have 28 gauge Golden Quail that I dearly love and it is very affective. I love straight grip guns.
I have a 20 gauge Model 101 Skeet Gun that I do my best work with.

I agree about Dennis Adler's book. He is quite full of himself!

I recently talked to New Line in Missouri. They have purchased most or all of the Model 23 parts from Winchester and handle all factory repairs. The manager there is very knowledgable about Model 23s. He told me that Winchester made quite alot of variations in the various machanics of the Model 23. My specific concern was mine, S/N PWK002xxx, an XTR 28" Pigeon Grade with fixed chokes and its forend iron. The forend iron seemed diffent than other M23s I had seen, but he said that Winchester made variations over the years, and mine was original. If anyone wants contact information please send me PM.