doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Recoil as a Function of Hull Conformation

I was examining some load date today supplied by Claybuster comparing Remington hulls with Federal hulls. Same wad, same payload and same powder charge.The Federals measure some 2000 PSI lower pressure. This would validate what Chuck has proposed.

I have the distinct confusion of having been on at least two sides of this argument as I had a gappy NID which kicked the snot out of me with standard 1 1/8oz target loads. Garwood's chart indicates that he thought depth of rim cut and thickness of base rim was the largest factor.

jack

I've tried to stay out of this thread, up until this one showed up. Chuck, Chuck, are you there? Pressure affects recoil??? I thought I knew you better and that you knew better. Pressure has nothing, zip, zero, nada, to do with recoil. How embarrassing that a good friend of mine would say that.

All ejectors are "spring fired". That's how they eject. Some guns have the first part of the extraction process driven by a camming action, others have nothing but the springs. Both are cocked and then fired after opening. The marks usually seen on the standing breech are caused by cocking the previously fired ejectors. The "spring loaded" ejectors do not "hold the shell tighter" to the breech than the other type.
Most of what's been stated in this thread is total nonsense, as was much of what Gough Thomas wrote about. However, this is all just my opinion and you are certainly free to believe any silly, illogical things you want to. If shell construction, internal shape, chamber dimensions, rim thickness, rim-cut depth, wad design, powder burn rate, color of printing on the box or any of this other crap had any effect on recoil wouldn't they all be made the same way????????????????

Somebody had to go and say the "R" word.

Jeeze Jim. Just when you thought you knew me.

Here's my thoughts.
The payload accelerates forward for only one reason...pressure across the base area of the wad. Pressure is a force seeking equilibrium. It seeks to push equally on all surfaces, front, back, sides, etc.. The force on the breachface will vary depending on pressure multiplied by the area of shell diameter. There is only one source of the force against the breachface...pressure.

Felt recoil is a more complex thing than simple math of the velocity and payload. It includes the weight of the gun and how fast it accelerates and for how long. Then one must figure in the velocity of the gun and its inertia in the total recoil felt. I figure all this is more than I can calculate. However, pressure, its peak and its total duration (aka the energy under the curve) make for a given acceleration of the payload. Peak pressures may vary and still produce the same velocity. Everyone has seen this in virtually every loading manual. So whats different? There is only variably in loads that produce the same velocity, but different percieved recoil. Pressure, how much, how fast, and how long. That's my story and I'm st-st-stickin tuit.

Sorry to disappoint, Jim.

There are more "Theories" of recoil than Carter had "Litle Liver Pills". I am simply ever so thankful I am totally "In-sensitive". Send the same wt of shot down the bbl at the same exit velocity from the same gun & I could care less whether it's put up in a plastic, paper, brass, cloth bag or what have you & whether it's sent on it's way by Pink Dot, Purple Dot, Plaid or Striped Powder. For every 100 folks who can "Feel" more recoil because of one circumstance, there's another 100 who can "Feel" more because of the exact opposite opposite circumstance. Muzzle velocity X Ejecta wt is good enough for me.

And then there is the 'Gordon System' used in B&P cartridges .. the plastic equiv. of the rolled paper base wad?

Really think that perception doesn't matter? Just ask your bride, its all that does matter. Fizzix be darned;-)

W/O getting too technical, I can rememeber the first time I encountered a two triggered gun, a 16ga. Stevens 311 variant. Being uninitiated and a runt, using two fingers I perceived that the pressure generated near crossed my eyes;-)

And now Jim wants to confuse us w/facts!

I learnt a long time ago to never go print while in the grip of the brown bottle

Hotrack

The one point made by some posters that is being used as a "given" is the business about Brownings kick and Berettas don't. Why don't you set up a separate thread that debates that ridiculous assumption before you assume it as fact. I have only noticed one thing about shooters who subscribe to old wive's tales involving ballistics and recoil. They usually don't shoot very well and they are looking for excuses for this deficiency.