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On the Photograph of Dr. Bakers rifle, there is what appears to be a large pin (approx 3/8" dia)in the side of the receiver below the receiver barrel ring and above the lever pin.

I have seen similar pins on more than one photograph of Zischang modified Borchardts. Does anyone know what the purpose of this pin is? It must serve some function, although it's not to be found on factory made Borchardts.

Harry


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Harry

The Baker-Borchardt started life as a Long-Range Creedmoor rifle. I can tell this by the milled out recesses in the action and the hollow through-bolt. When Niedner got the rifle he made a new breech block and fitted DST’s, although the triggers are a lot like ones made by Zischang the treatment of the lower tang is not and is case-colored in the Niedner-Malden style.

The tapered pin in the action is a take-down so there may have been more barrels for the action at one time. It’s very possible that the take-down pin was the work of Zischang. Dr. Baker had many rifles and this rifle may have been something else between the long-range and woodchuck rifle we see today.

Another interesting thing about this rifle is the barrel on it was original on one of Niedner’s rifles, who then mounted it on Bakers rifle. I have a Borchardt that belonged to Niedner that has a Stevens-Pope .38-72 barrel on it that originally belonged to Dr. Baker and was on his Remington.

Michael

Last edited by Michael Petrov; 11/04/06 02:58 PM.

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Michael Petrov, Don't know if this is'too late for you to read, but I was unpacking a box of old stuff, John Amber Photos, Letters from long dead Customers,John Pirie(sp)Carson, Pirie,&Scott,Dept Store in Chicago,Good client of Purdey's,Elmer (THE HAT)Keith.Have a GREAT photo of 'The EX' with a db 375H&H and Elmers Big Hat,Dead Lion Rug with the EX(sans clothing)looking "VERY Trophy-Like"...But, an Englishman's Promise is a Promise!!!!I think Barry Hands may have had 'a peek' when we were unpacking these boxes couple of weeks ago!!!!!But I've regressed......I have a page from a 1972(?)Gun Digest from John Amber,with the obit'for Tom Shelhamer,1890-1971 and in the next column,Nash Buckingham,1881-1971.Amber wrotea nice, short(65words) piece for Mr Shelhamer. Two'Biggies' Off to the Blue Yonder in the same year..C/C

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Originally Posted By: Michael Petrov
Harry

The tapered pin in the action is a take-down so there may have been more barrels for the action at one time. It’s very possible that the take-down pin was the work of Zischang. Dr. Baker had many rifles and this rifle may have been something else between the long-range and woodchuck rifle we see today.

Michael


Hello Michael,

Thanks for the prompt reply, but it has brought up another question. I know that some different makes of rifles,(including target rifles)had the barrels pinned in place by one or two crosspins. There being no threads on either the receiver or barrel.

Is Dr.Bakers rifle 'threadless' or, is the barrel a light hand tight screw in fit, locked in place by the cross pin, or is the pin alone holding the barrel in position?

I only ask,because I am building a 'Borchardt' from scratch and the thought had crossed my mind to have two or more of barrels in different calibres that could be changed quickly, in the field, instead of having to take the rifle home and do a barrel change there.

It would make my project a lot more interesting if I could have one barrel in 45/70 or 45/90 for long range BRCR, a .38" -.40"BP round for hunting Roe Deer, and, with a spare breechblock it could be converted to a .22 rimfire for rabbits and vermin.

Provided the receiver ring and the barrels are precision ground so that they fit together without any movement or play, I see no reason why a tapered locking pin shouldn't hold them together as well as the traditional screw together fitting. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Regards,

Harry

Last edited by Harry Eales; 11/04/06 07:57 PM.
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Originally Posted By: crossedchisles
Michael Petrov, Don't know if this is'too late for you to read, but I was unpacking a box of old stuff, John Amber Photos, Letters from long dead Customers,John Pirie(sp)Carson, Pirie,&Scott,Dept Store in Chicago,Good client of Purdey's,Elmer (THE HAT)Keith.Have a GREAT photo of 'The EX' with a db 375H&H and Elmers Big Hat,Dead Lion Rug with the EX(sans clothing)looking "VERY Trophy-Like"...But, an Englishman's Promise is a Promise!!!!I think Barry Hands may have had 'a peek' when we were unpacking these boxes couple of weeks ago!!!!!But I've regressed......I have a page from a 1972(?)Gun Digest from John Amber,with the obit'for Tom Shelhamer,1890-1971 and in the next column,Nash Buckingham,1881-1971.Amber wrotea nice, short(65words) piece for Mr Shelhamer. Two'Biggies' Off to the Blue Yonder in the same year..C/C

All interesting stuff , I have all the “Gun Digest” but was unaware of the Shelhamer obit, I will look it up, thanks for the alert. Do you ever remember talking with John Amber about an “Accident” in his gun room that involved a pellet rifle and a very historical custom rifle? If so I would like to hear more!


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[/quote]

Hello Michael,

Thanks for the prompt reply, but it has brought up another question. I know that some different makes of rifles,(including target rifles)had the barrels pinned in place by one or two crosspins. There being no threads on either the receiver or barrel.

Is Dr.Bakers rifle 'threadless' or, is the barrel a light hand tight screw in fit, locked in place by the cross pin, or is the pin alone holding the barrel in position?

I only ask,because I am building a 'Borchardt' from scratch and the thought had crossed my mind to have two or more of barrels in different calibres that could be changed quickly, in the field, instead of having to take the rifle home and do a barrel change there.

It would make my project a lot more interesting if I could have one barrel in 45/70 or 45/90 for long range BRCR, a .38" -.40"BP round for hunting Roe Deer, and, with a spare breechblock it could be converted to a .22 rimfire for rabbits and vermin.

Provided the receiver ring and the barrels are precision ground so that they fit together without any movement or play, I see no reason why a tapered locking pin shouldn't hold them together as well as the traditional screw together fitting. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

Regards,

Harry [/quote]

Harry,

If your building a Borchardt from scratch my hat if off to your sir and I wish you the best of luck. I like your idea about using it for both target and hunting. The barrel is threaded and I would not consider anything else. I don’t believe that I would build a rifle (target) with no threads and only cross-pins. We just built a spare barrel for my Stevens 44 ½ that I can change with the barrel in a padded vise using an oak block of wood in the breech-block cut out. This barrel is then held in with a screw from the bottom of the frame that is tapered on the sides of the end but does not bottom out. I also have a Ballard that has this same Stevens set-screw in the bottom of the frame. I have seen take-down single-shots by both Zischang and Schoyen that have the cross-pin and they were all threaded.




Michael


Last edited by Michael Petrov; 11/05/06 02:26 AM.
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Hello Michael,

Many thanks for the reply, I've sent you a PM to avoid cluttering up this fascinating thread.

Harry


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Michael,I did'nt hear that particular story, butI saw the "Speed Graphic" that got 'Itself'shot at "A Farm" Marengo,Illinois!!!I wonder where those Beautiful Single-Shot rifles are to-day?? I have a English Oak,"Coffin Rifle-Case" With a Brass Name Plate on the outside of the lid, Engraved'William Cooper. 7 Union Court. Liverpool.The case is 55" long. JA told me it was built for a'Whitworth Rifle aprox 1850-1860" A similar case is pictured in Gun Digest1983 P110(JA gave me the page with the case)..DT

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Originally Posted By: Harry Eales
Hello Michael,

Many thanks for the reply, I've sent you a PM to avoid cluttering up this fascinating thread.

Harry


Harry,

No PM, send me a note to mjpetrov@acsalaska.net


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Originally Posted By: Harry Eales
Hello Michael,

Many thanks for the reply, I've sent you a PM to avoid cluttering up this fascinating thread.

Harry


Harry,

No PM, send me a note to mjpetrov@acsalaska.net


MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014




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