doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Punishing recoil

I don't want to steal the main thread from the original poster, but how was I wrong the second time?
"However, when you are achieving the SAME velocity with the same payload, but only different pressure levels, recoil will be the same, regardless of what the pressure is."
I don't know how you could acheive the same velocity with the same payload and only different pressure levels, one small change in componants and you change velocity and pressure. A half grain of powder will change both.
Isn't that the reason for low pressure low recoil loads and now Federal and Winchester have low recoil factory loads.
I quess maybe I should have given some more data of a low recoil (low pressure) reload in my original post to clarify it.
Sorry if I confused anyone, but I do know the difference.
Plus do you know of many high recoil loads under 8,000 psi in 12 ga.? I don't

I assume you are not making the mistake of shooting the gun based on the instructions in the owner's manual? Reason being that when translated to English from German, it is easy for the publisher to make a mistake with the German word for 'shoulder' as it is spelled 'groin'.

By being wrong the second time, I was poking a little fun at your slogan: "I thought I was wrong one time, but I was mistaken"

Q. "I don't know how you could acheive the same velocity with the same payload and only different pressure levels, one small change in componants and you change velocity and pressure."

A. Quite easily. You use powder with a different burning rate. There is some confusion here, but it's not in my house.

Smile, JDW

At a quick glance in a loading manual I find a load giving 1 1/8oz of shot 1310fps @ 8,500psi using 27grs powder & another load giving that same 1 1/8oz only 1145fps but @ 9,000 psi using 18grs of a much faster powder. Should be obvious to anyone the lower pressure load is going to "Kick" much more severe . With "No" pressure there would be no movement, thus no recoil. The recoil though is not relative to the pressure but to the movement. The heavier the weight moved and/or the faster it is moved the higher the recoil.

JDW I understand your thinking but as Jim and 2 Piper pointed out there are differences in powders. Peak pressures are what is stated in reloading data. The peak, which only lasts for very brief portion of the burn time, does not perform the most work to accelerate the load. It is the total sustained pressure which brings the load up to velocity. If you have a pressure vs time curve for a load from ignition to barrel clearance, the area under the curve represents the work performed. Peak pressures are just a brief spike early in the burn. So a load with a low peak but a longer sustained pressure can easily out perform a fast powder. A real example is that black powder loads which seldom get past 6000 psi peak in shotguns can duplicate smokeless powder load performance with peaks in the 11,500 psi range. Recoil is calculated off the velocity and weight of the material ejected from the barrel(shot, wad, powder residue, gases). Drop the weight and velocity greatly reduces recoil.

From the Hodgdon 2004 reloading manual [ I'm not going to quote all the info, it would take too long ]- " Unfortunately, too many shooters think that pressure has an effect on recoil. In truth, it doesn't. It is not included in the formula for calculating recoil as noted in our example." The only items used in their formula was the weight of shot,wad,powder,the gun and muzzle velocity- no where is psi mentioned. JDW, it looks like you are actually wrong one time. Sorry. Paul

As for the subject of recoil- 1oz of shot at 1200fps in a 12ga is all anyone needs to kill anything. And you won't feel the recoil. Paul

You may wish to check head space, because any excess will result in a significant increase in recoil.

I thought drillings tended to be on the chunky side - most also seem to have more drop at the comb, which could increase the felt recoil. But that's just an impression based on looking at 'em in shows and shops, so I could be way off on this.

http://www.zknives.com/bali/brcstgn.shtml

Note, as bladesmith points out, that pressure is not involved in the calculation of shotgun recoil.