doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stock Finish Drying - Question

I've found elevated temperature to help.....marginally. But it cannot overcome the deleterious effect of humidity.

I once built a drying box from an old refrigerator, fitted with a light bulb for heat, a small fan for circulation and a silica gel dessicant container for lowering the humidity. It taught me an appreciation for low humidity, but was far from satisfactory.

Ultimately, I discovered...

1) Since I'm not a pro, I have the luxury of restricting my finishing to November-March when I can maintain a constant 45-50% humidity in the shop, and

2) Waterlox. The fastest curing, urethane modified, tung oil finish that exists (to my knowledge). No other finish would I attempt to rub out with less than 2 months cure time...it's not worth the risk. I've checkered stocks with other popular finishes that had cured for 2 months, only to smell fresh oil with the first pass of the cutter. I routinely rub out and checker Waterlox finishes in 2-3 weeks....I've yet to encounter uncured, sub-surface oil.

Mike, I hope GJW won't mind if I ask you to expound on your use of Waterlox as a stock finish, as I've never heard of it's use for gunstocks. I know it is very thin like Watco Danish Oil, which is a thin dryer modified linseed, much like thinned Tru-Oil. This product penetrates deeply but it does darken the walnut more than most clear finishes. Really looks good on lighter color walnut and brings out the grain, but darker wood gets real dark and looks like those 100 year old oxidized finishes. That's OK if that is the appearance you're after. So, is Waterlox similar and does it fill pores or surface build with multiple coats? It's interesting to coat one piece of walnut with 6 or 8 different "clear" finishes and see the different effects on the same piece of wood. I've been playing around with this while experimenting to find out which wood glues give the strongest and most invisible joint in walnut. Shortly will be clamping my pretty glued and finished samples in a large vise and beating them to splinters.

An oil finish that wants to remain "tacky" can be hardened easily with Japan Dryer applied lightly on the offending finish with a clean , lintfree, cloth. Most paint stores carry this product.

Keith I've use the same basic procedure for finishing over the years, regardless of the product that was my current favorite. Meaning, like many others, I use several coats of thinned finish to penetrate as deeply as possible, followed by applications of thick finish and wet sanding through the grits until I have a surface perfectly filled with a mixture of oil and wood dust (never an auxillary filler). Then I apply many very thin coats (top coating) to my satisfaction, followed finally by rubbing out with BLO/pumice and/or rottenstone.

Though Ive heard others mention it, I've not been aware of clear oils darkening the wood to varying degrees. I base my choice of finish on other factors and the color is what it is. I don't use stains. I wet the raw wood with water and the blank passes or fails based on the resulting color and figure.

I'm fond of saying that any of 4 commercial finishes will do a satisfactory job for the first 98% of the process. I've moved from Tru-oil to Permalyn to Pro Custom and finally Waterlox, based on slight differences I perceive in tack time, cure time, permeability to water and facial oil, resistance to abrasion and retouch-ability. I don't know any pros who are using Waterlox for gunstocks and wouldn't presume to tell them their job. But as a guy who finishes stocks, then beats the hell out of them in the grouse woods, cheeks some of them 20,000 times a year on targets, then retouches them in the off season, I know what works for me.

Mike, which Waterlox product do you use? Some are for exterior, some for interior. Then there's the satin vs. gloss choice.

Dave,

"Waterlox Original Sealer and Finish" is a very thin, highly penetrating finish that will seem most "familiar" to people who've used Permalyn Sealer or Deft/Watco Danish oil, maybe Formby's Tung Oil. Like ANY clear and transparent oil finish, even those advertised as "low gloss", it will shine if built up enough. I've finished several guns with it and as I said, anybody finishing gunstocks with other thin finishes should feel comfortable with it.

Actually, though, I now prefer the thicker "Waterlox Original Satin Finish" BUT, it has a particulate flattener added to it (imagine adding talcum powder to Tru-oil)and would certainly seem strange and require some attitude adjustment from someone unfamiliar with it. Also, I use only California English blanks with dark figure on a honey colored background. On medium or dark brown wood, like some "Turkish" English walnut, and certainly Claro and Am black, it might appear murky and mute the color and figure.

Generically, I prefer tung oil/urethane blends to linseed blends, finding them to cure hard faster and be less "plastic" in the interim. I espounded a year or so ago on Waterlox, but I've never heard from another soul who has tried it. I would like to, even if they dislike it.

If your finish is not drying, chances are you didn't let a prevous coat dry thoroughly. As above, Japan dryer, sunshine and patience. Many finishes cure when exposed to UV rays.
I have used a drying cabinet for many years, but mostly to keep the dust off and protect from idiot moves.
Beware of schrinkage with more than minimal heat.
I stain most of my stocks which adds a couple more levels of complication.
Best,
Steve

Mike, Thanks for sharing your experience and tecniques with us. As it stands right now with my samples of black walnut glued with different glues, Gilespie Tung Oil Varnish is lightest followed by Polyurethane, Permalyn, Tru-Oil, and Watco Danish Oil which is darkest by a goodly amount. I plan to also try Spar Varnish before the destructive testing and may just pick up a pint of Waterlox to see how it compares. All of these were just two thin applications with no sanding in or rubbing. I think the Watco would work nicely on lighter French Walnut in lieu of stain as it really popped the grain on the very lightest samples of black walnut.

Thanks for the info, Mike. I'll give it a try on my next project.

Keith,

That's interesting. Assuming all those finishes are pretty comparable in color to begin with, could the darkening just be an artifact of "wetting" or penetration of the oil? Straight polyurethane is infamous for being "on" the wood, while most gunstock finishes are referred to as penetrating oils. Lacquer is even more of a topcoat. A dry blank darkens considerably and the figure pops when you wet it with water or mineral spirits. Where does one of those fit in your scale?