doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Stock Finish Drying - Question

Hi all, I've been treating my stocks with Clive C. Lemon Oil (CCL) and I really like this product. What I've been doing is hand rubbing it into the stock like BLO or Truoil.

Here's the deal, I have one stock that is being pigheaded in drying. One side of the stock has dryed and is fine, the otherside is still not dryed to a hard finish.

I'm looking for suggestions. I have heard or read that putting the stock in sunlight will speed up the process.

Your thoughts please?

All the best!!

Greg

In my opinion you might not have let the previous finish dry and then re-coated again, or you put a heavier coat on. Like suggested on the other forum, either strip it away with something that thins it or give it more time.
Years ago when I was fooling around with bamboo rods and applying spar varnish to seal the rods the full cure was 6 months.

Hang it in the sun.

Greg, another thought is to make a drying box. I made mine out of plexiglass with a 40 watt bulb inside. It will speed up the drying process. I've also read that another individual made a drying box out of a corrugated box with a hanging low wattage bulb - same drying effect. The only caution is to be sure that the bulb does not touch the corrugated paper - could cause a fire. Humidity will also slow the drying of the oil - this could be your drying problem coupled with too heavy an applied oil finish. For future oil coats you may wish to thin the oil a little - I use a several drops of turpintine in the finish bottle to thin out. The thinned out mixture will also be easier to apply. Some prefer to spread with finger tips. I use a small ball made from a T-shirt, ie., it will not leave lint in the finish.

I second the drying box. Lowers humidity and the heat speeds curing. I keep a Radio Shack battery powered thermostat/hygrometer in the box. Only way to go for me.

I made a drying box out of plywood that I painted the inside with several coats of enamel (better dust control). I use a 40 watt bulb in the summer and a 60 in the winter. I use two temp probes,one low and one high to monitor the temp. I can hold the temperature at 100 degrees for as long as I need to.

Regards, Gordon

Thanks all, great ideas!! I niver thought about a box, excellent!!

Say, if one were to let it hang in the sun, is there a time element or just let it sit till dry?

Thanks again all!!

Greg

Will lemon oil dry? I thought it remained a liquid.

Assuming your coat of finish on both sides is from the same container, I'll agree with JDW that you either went heavier on one side or put it on over a coat that was'nt fully dry. I once bought a bottle of Lin-Speed that must not have had enough dryer in the mix because a thin coat was still tacky after weeks. Tung oil varnishes are notorious for slow dry and even worse if you put a second coat over an uncured coat. As the others have noted, a warm or sunny place to dry and a little patience will usually work. That bad bottle of Lin-Speed I mentioned would have made good glue traps for mice. Note also that none of the finishes mentioned here, except maybe spar varnish, get real high marks for durability or preventing moisture transmission into the wood on a gun that will see use in the field.

Joe.....Clive C Lemon is the brand name....

I've found elevated temperature to help.....marginally. But it cannot overcome the deleterious effect of humidity.

I once built a drying box from an old refrigerator, fitted with a light bulb for heat, a small fan for circulation and a silica gel dessicant container for lowering the humidity. It taught me an appreciation for low humidity, but was far from satisfactory.

Ultimately, I discovered...

1) Since I'm not a pro, I have the luxury of restricting my finishing to November-March when I can maintain a constant 45-50% humidity in the shop, and

2) Waterlox. The fastest curing, urethane modified, tung oil finish that exists (to my knowledge). No other finish would I attempt to rub out with less than 2 months cure time...it's not worth the risk. I've checkered stocks with other popular finishes that had cured for 2 months, only to smell fresh oil with the first pass of the cutter. I routinely rub out and checker Waterlox finishes in 2-3 weeks....I've yet to encounter uncured, sub-surface oil.

Mike, I hope GJW won't mind if I ask you to expound on your use of Waterlox as a stock finish, as I've never heard of it's use for gunstocks. I know it is very thin like Watco Danish Oil, which is a thin dryer modified linseed, much like thinned Tru-Oil. This product penetrates deeply but it does darken the walnut more than most clear finishes. Really looks good on lighter color walnut and brings out the grain, but darker wood gets real dark and looks like those 100 year old oxidized finishes. That's OK if that is the appearance you're after. So, is Waterlox similar and does it fill pores or surface build with multiple coats? It's interesting to coat one piece of walnut with 6 or 8 different "clear" finishes and see the different effects on the same piece of wood. I've been playing around with this while experimenting to find out which wood glues give the strongest and most invisible joint in walnut. Shortly will be clamping my pretty glued and finished samples in a large vise and beating them to splinters.

An oil finish that wants to remain "tacky" can be hardened easily with Japan Dryer applied lightly on the offending finish with a clean , lintfree, cloth. Most paint stores carry this product.

Keith I've use the same basic procedure for finishing over the years, regardless of the product that was my current favorite. Meaning, like many others, I use several coats of thinned finish to penetrate as deeply as possible, followed by applications of thick finish and wet sanding through the grits until I have a surface perfectly filled with a mixture of oil and wood dust (never an auxillary filler). Then I apply many very thin coats (top coating) to my satisfaction, followed finally by rubbing out with BLO/pumice and/or rottenstone.

Though Ive heard others mention it, I've not been aware of clear oils darkening the wood to varying degrees. I base my choice of finish on other factors and the color is what it is. I don't use stains. I wet the raw wood with water and the blank passes or fails based on the resulting color and figure.

I'm fond of saying that any of 4 commercial finishes will do a satisfactory job for the first 98% of the process. I've moved from Tru-oil to Permalyn to Pro Custom and finally Waterlox, based on slight differences I perceive in tack time, cure time, permeability to water and facial oil, resistance to abrasion and retouch-ability. I don't know any pros who are using Waterlox for gunstocks and wouldn't presume to tell them their job. But as a guy who finishes stocks, then beats the hell out of them in the grouse woods, cheeks some of them 20,000 times a year on targets, then retouches them in the off season, I know what works for me.

Mike, which Waterlox product do you use? Some are for exterior, some for interior. Then there's the satin vs. gloss choice.

Dave,

"Waterlox Original Sealer and Finish" is a very thin, highly penetrating finish that will seem most "familiar" to people who've used Permalyn Sealer or Deft/Watco Danish oil, maybe Formby's Tung Oil. Like ANY clear and transparent oil finish, even those advertised as "low gloss", it will shine if built up enough. I've finished several guns with it and as I said, anybody finishing gunstocks with other thin finishes should feel comfortable with it.

Actually, though, I now prefer the thicker "Waterlox Original Satin Finish" BUT, it has a particulate flattener added to it (imagine adding talcum powder to Tru-oil)and would certainly seem strange and require some attitude adjustment from someone unfamiliar with it. Also, I use only California English blanks with dark figure on a honey colored background. On medium or dark brown wood, like some "Turkish" English walnut, and certainly Claro and Am black, it might appear murky and mute the color and figure.

Generically, I prefer tung oil/urethane blends to linseed blends, finding them to cure hard faster and be less "plastic" in the interim. I espounded a year or so ago on Waterlox, but I've never heard from another soul who has tried it. I would like to, even if they dislike it.

If your finish is not drying, chances are you didn't let a prevous coat dry thoroughly. As above, Japan dryer, sunshine and patience. Many finishes cure when exposed to UV rays.
I have used a drying cabinet for many years, but mostly to keep the dust off and protect from idiot moves.
Beware of schrinkage with more than minimal heat.
I stain most of my stocks which adds a couple more levels of complication.
Best,
Steve

Mike, Thanks for sharing your experience and tecniques with us. As it stands right now with my samples of black walnut glued with different glues, Gilespie Tung Oil Varnish is lightest followed by Polyurethane, Permalyn, Tru-Oil, and Watco Danish Oil which is darkest by a goodly amount. I plan to also try Spar Varnish before the destructive testing and may just pick up a pint of Waterlox to see how it compares. All of these were just two thin applications with no sanding in or rubbing. I think the Watco would work nicely on lighter French Walnut in lieu of stain as it really popped the grain on the very lightest samples of black walnut.

Thanks for the info, Mike. I'll give it a try on my next project.

Keith,

That's interesting. Assuming all those finishes are pretty comparable in color to begin with, could the darkening just be an artifact of "wetting" or penetration of the oil? Straight polyurethane is infamous for being "on" the wood, while most gunstock finishes are referred to as penetrating oils. Lacquer is even more of a topcoat. A dry blank darkens considerably and the figure pops when you wet it with water or mineral spirits. Where does one of those fit in your scale?

Mike, That premise is mostly on track as the Watco is definitely the thinnest product I used and really soaked in. But the Gilespie Tung Varnish has a lower viscosity than the polyurethane or the Permalyn, yet is the lightest color on the wood. Although it darkened the wood slightly less than the polyurethane, it seemed to enhance the grain more. My little experiment taught me that we can't simply wet our wood with water, alcohol, or mineral spirits and get a perfect notion of the appearance of our final finish. Also, the same finish that really popped the grain of an English or French walnut might hide the grain of a dark Turkish or Black walnut stock. The differences were more dramatic than I expected and I merely wished to see which finishes either concealed or enhanced visability of a glue joint on a stock repair.

I've used waterlox for stocks and furniture. I still prefer my own modification of the English linseed type finish that circulated here a year or so ago. I add more carnauba to mine. Waterlox is more akin to poly than oil for me. Doesn't rub out as well, though it does build fast and gives a clear finish.

Hansli, is that the carnauba I am thinking about? :-)

As thin colourless products go I've been trying out Minwax Antique Oil laced with a
dash of BLO and applied by hand rubbing. Very satisfactory results. You start off by
sealing with just Antique Oil and OOOO steel wool and then hand rub with the afore
mentioned mix. The Antique Oil really penetrates and mixed with BLO dries a little
slower to allow you to caress the stock properly. Several coats give a nice luster.
Some OOOO wool in between coats.

Do bear with me, as the local availability of products is limited to say the least.
I was very lucky to find the Antique Oil as it was imported specially for a customer
that finally only bought a few tins and left the rest to be found by yours truly.

The Antique Oil was recommended some time ago by a generous board member
and I could not believe when I found some locally.

JC

Same here, Tex. Initially, halved the basic Hadoke recipe but put in 200gr. of carnauba flakes by mistake instead of a 100 and stuck with it. Actually, if you ever make this stuff for friends as I've done a couple of times, makes a smaller container and they can cut it with more turps and BL if they like. Don't need a drier; you can put it in the safe more or less dustfree and forget about it for awhile--which can be a good thing. Been cutting it back with rottenstone and piece of jigging felt on AyA numba 2 which hadn't been touched since last Sept.

jack

Yes JC, the very stuff. Gives the oil more body and better grain filling characteristics. I'm experimenting with it as an additive to cheap shampoo to add lustrous shine and bounce to bald guys. If it sells, we may have a market for that warehouse of liquid you have. We need to get some to Jack so he has yet another bottle of whatizit on the shelf.

Nice to know some of you like 'Salopian Sheep Dip' It's the Lanolin you know?

Peter, I save the anhydrous lanolin for an additive to the Ed's Red cleaner. And for holsters, belts. Lately, I've been wrapping a cotton rag soaked in Ballistol around barrel and frame of my Dan Wesson and sticking the whole thing in the holster. Ballistol allegedly binds molecularly with tannic acid in the gunleather and creates a harmless compound (according to their adverts at least). By the by, no woolies this month; view of Wrekin and the Stretton Hills from Lyn Hill.

jack