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Thanks for the heads up re. Mr. Les @ Diamond. I shall keep this post on file and warn others (clients) about this mans ideas and attempts to boost profits without true reason other than greed. I believe Ky Jon hit the nail on the head.



Ken Hurst
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The irony here is that it has been shown scientifically that 2 3/4" loads fired in 2.5" chambers do not result in an increase in pressure vs. those same loads fired in 2.75" chambers. This is with lead shot and plastic shells with plastic wads, if I recall correctly.


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Originally Posted By: Ed Pirie
I am sure there is a misunderstanding here with you fellas and Les at Diamond Gunsmithing. He has an excellent reputation and his work is well thought of. Walt Synder highly recommends Les and I know of many Ithaca owners that are very satisfied with his work. I think you are way off slamming him.

Ed Pirie
West Topsham, Vermont


I agree with you. I sent Les a grade 4 set of barrles for repair a year ago and he did a great job, and did not force me to lengthen any chambers.

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My comment was only to reinforce that Ithaca as a corporate entity did torch old and new guns. They didn't do it because they thought it was the "way to do it". They did it because they didn't know how to do it right. Les should have that bit of knowledge in his data bank and reject the procedure as incorrect.

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Of late, Ithaca "torched" frames on customer's guns because of unpredictable warping problems caused when put back in the 'pots'. We have this stated in a letter from Ed. Thompson, Ithaca service manager at the time. I think this is still a concern when recasing.
Ken, Les is a man of integrity and certainly not a man possessed with greed. If anything, his prices are on the lower end of the range. He is only doing what he thinks is correct. I have always known him to up front with prices and work. If ones disagrees with his practices, go elsewhere but don't inpugn the man's charactor.

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If his methods truly are sound, he could prove it easily by simply stating key parameters of his process, beginning with temperatures, times, etc. He doesn't need to give all, exact details. I don't know if his process is or is not ok, and don't know how anyone could without this information.


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" If ones disagrees with his practices, go elsewhere but don't inpugn the man's charactor. "

Don't a person's practices speak to their character? If I'm a surgeon and I feel the best way to remedy a broken finger is to cut off the hand, doesn't that speak to my character as well as my abilities as a doctor?

Let's not lose sight of the fact that this thread is directly discussing a gunsmith's talents at gunsmithing - it's not as though he's been accused of being a poor dresser who doesn't floss often enough.

I'll say ths much.....I've put in my share of time on forums relating to guns, machine tools, cars, bikes, etc. and I've never seen such a bunch of old ladies as the double gun crowd when it comes to getting their panties in a wad over 'defamation of character' issues. Go on the Dodge Viper site and call a mechanic a hack. He might offer to drag race you to settle the issue - but no one worries about lawsuits or loss of 'character'.

Last edited by GregSY; 11/10/06 03:12 PM.
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Originally Posted By: GregSY
" If ones disagrees with his practices, go elsewhere but don't inpugn the man's charactor. "

I agree with Walt on Les not deserving of the crucifixion he is getting here.

" I'll say ths much.....I've put in my share of time on forums relating to guns, machine tools, cars, bikes, etc. and I've never seen such a bunch of old ladies as the double gun crowd when it comes to getting their panties in a wad over 'defamation of character' issues. Go on the Dodge Viper site and call a mechanic a hack. He might offer to drag race you to settle the issue - but no one worries about lawsuits or loss of 'character'. "

No kidding. Some of you guys need to eat more fiber or something.


Last edited by dubbletrubble; 11/10/06 06:43 PM.
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I'm going to try this one more time. Les may be a wonderful guy and I have heard good things about his company. However, my key statement was that he of all people should know that the torching at Ithaca was not by choice, it was because they admittedly lost the original formula which obviously did not involve torching. The results of "torching" at Ithaca were not good and the gunsmiths at Ithaca were well aware of that. It was a last ditch effort to get the last single barrels out the door. The practice should not be continued just because the "company" built a few dozen guns using that method.

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Originally Posted By: Walter C. Snyder
Of late, Ithaca "torched" frames on customer's guns because of unpredictable warping problems caused when put back in the 'pots'. We have this stated in a letter from Ed. Thompson, Ithaca service manager at the time. I think this is still a concern when recasing.


Did you not read what Walt said?

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