doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

Reilly made rifles from the very beginning of the company; In fact the first extant long gun made by Reilly is SN 162, a percussion rifle dated to 1829. Rook rifles or Park rifles were always popular in the UK in the 19th century and Reilly marketed a lot of them. Most were not made by him. A few were (probably special order) and late in the company's history he did serial number a few rook rifles clearly made elsewhere:

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These early small caliber rifles were definitely made and serial numbered by Reilly:

10619
http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/print_sale.aspx?saleid=10537
A FINE CASED 60-BORE PERCUSSION SINGLE-SHOT ROOK or PARK RIFLE, serial no. 10619,
circa 1865, with expertly re-browned 28in. octagonal barrel, the top-flat signed ‘REILLY, NEW OXFORD STREET LONDON’, applied blade fore-sight, standing notch rear-sight with two additional folding leaves, scroll engraved squared patent breech, colour hardened top tang with scroll engraving, border and scroll engraved bar- action lock signed ‘REILLY, LONDON’ (traces of colour), french polished walnut half-stock chequered at the wrist, reblued iron furniture and ebony ramrod, complete with its manufacturer’s oak storage case with pink parchment trade label, the interior lined and compartmented in green velvet and containing a number of period accessories probablyoriginal to this rifle. This actual rifle is featured in Winfer & Rowe’s book, ‘British Single Shot Rifles Volume 7’ on page 87


25449
EM Reilly & Co. .28 bore SxS, Side Lever owned by “Builder” (Milt). Probably originally a .538 pistol caliber rook rifle (30 bore); 26" barrels; 6lbs. 1/2 oz. Modern dimensions in the ball park of 1 1/2 x 2 1/2". Laying it on a bench is difficult since the hammers stick up even when cocked. 9" of evenly tapered choke with .005" restriction. “30” on the barrels. The bores are .560 up to the beginning of the choke. The chambers are 2 3/4". I assume somebody cut them. Minimum wall thickness is over .035" and near the end of the chambers it is over .130". So lots of thickness all over hence the heavy barrels.


27764
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20806/lot/92/
A .410 SINGLE-BARRELLED HAMMER GUN BY E. M. REILLY & CO., NO. 27764; Converted from a .350 rook-rifle. Sidelever, rebounding-backlock, foliate-scroll engraving, well-figured stock with pistolgrip and pistolgrip-cap, the barrel with octagonal breech-end engraved E. M. Reilly & Co., 277 Oxford St. Weight 4lb. 11oz., 13in. stock, 27in. barrel, approx. full choke, 2½in. chamber, Birmingham nitro reproof


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These four rook rifles likely have a legitimate Reilly SN on them but also another maker’s number who no doubt built the guns. By the time Reilly opened 295 Oxford Street in May 1904 his business have suffered a catastrophic decline and he was no doubt buying guns in the white to finish. In addition the sequence of numbers 2864, 2943, 2959 might not be an accident. Below is another Trantor rook rifle with numbers "2361” and “18865". Could Reilly have been counting and separately numbering the rook rifles he sold?

7330 (31111) Per above:
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...++6577C&refno=++225351&saletype=


2864
http://www.stevebarnettfineguns.com/asp-bin/Detail.asp?ID=9415#
BEGAN LIFE AS A SINGLE SHOT RIFLE AND WAS SLEEVED TO A 410 WITH PERMANENT LOW TEMPERATURE TIMKIN 4130 CV .KEN EISTER TESTED 28" 1/2 OCTAGON 1/2 ROUND SINGLE TRIGGER EJECTOR SPLINTER FOREARM ENGLISH GRIP EXCELLENT CONDITION IN A FITTED BEST BRITISH CASE 4LBS 10 OZ X 2 1/4 X 1 1/2 X 15 1/4


35394 (2943)
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...+++713+&refno=++204441&saletype=
A .297/.250 CENTRAL-HAMMER SIDELEVER EJECTOR ROOK & RABBIT RIFLE SIGNED E.M. REILLY, serial no. 2943 (35394), 
circa 1904, with blued octagonal 26in. barrel, dove-tailed beaded blade fore-sight, standing notch rear-sight with two additional folding leaves, the top-flat roll engraved for its full length with rectangular panel forwards of the rear-sight signed 'E.M. REILLY & CO, 295 OXFORD ST. LONDON', sprung automatic ejector, border engraved action with scroll engraved detail (traces of colour), Reilly number '35394' to trigger guard bow, chequered walnut semi pistol-grip butt-stock, ribbed end to heel and chequered walnut snap-on splinter fore-end with horn tip, strong traces of original colour and finish remaining


35551 (2959)
https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/17946/lot/42/
Name: E.M. Reilly & Co,m 295 Oxford Street, London
Descriptions: A .300 hammer rook-rifle by E.M. Reilly & Co., no. 35551/2959
Sidelever, rebounding hammer, the sides of the action-body with the makers name engraved in a scrolling banner surrounded by bold foliate-scrollwork, much blued finish, figured stock with semi-pistolgrip, horn-capped forend, the octagonal barrel, engraved E.M. Reilly & Co., 295 Oxford St., London, with open-sights, sighted for 50, 100 and 150 yards, and bead-foresight

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These rook rifles with the Reilly name on them likely do not have a Reilly SN.

Needle fire rook rilfes: in the 1860’s Trantor was making a very popular small calibur rook-rifle that was retailed by many firm including Reilly. Reilly sold these but did not serial number them or claim to make them.

. . . . .9137
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Odd%...%20Rifle%20E.M.%20Reilly%2040%20Cal..htm
Trantor NeedlefireTarget Rifle E.M. Reilly 40 Cal.
E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London


. . . . .http://www.jcmilitaria.com/antique_weapons_rifles.asp?Start=60
.40 Calibre Break Action Needle Fire Rook Rifle By E.M Reilly & Co, London. This is a good quality .40 Calibre Needle Fire Rook Rifle By E.M Reilly & Co, London.. It has a 25 1/2" octagonal barrel and measures 42" overall. The barrel's bore is clean and has crisp rifling. The top of the barrel is engraved 'E.M. Reilly & Co 502 New Oxford Street, London'.


17939
https://collections.royalarmouries.org/object/rac-object-39664.html.
https://www.stroudauctions.co.uk/lots/5fda1f9a1a00632f4e439f80
E M Reilly .380 hammer action rook rifle with chequered semi-pistol grip and forend, carved horn butt cap, line engraved lock named 'E M Reilly & Co 277 Oxford Street London', pop-up sights, sling suspension loops, vacant cartouche to the underside of the stock, side thumb lever and 24 inch octagonal barrel, overall length 101.5cm, serial number 17939.


18865
EM Reilly .380LR Break barrel rook rifle (1861 to 1869) RHS side lever, external hammer with angled (ex percussion?) strike, 24” octagonal barrel, semi-pistol grip, shallow bead-on-post foresight on dovetail, empty rearsight dovetail, PH Sportarget folding aperture rearsight on tang. Blank silver escutcheon under butt, semi pistol grip, steel butt plate. Markings: On barrel flat “E..M.Reilly & Co. 502 New Oxford St, London”. Under splinter “2361” “10.5” “317” “18865”.


19124
https://www.gunsinternational.com/g...th-jones-underlever.cfm?gun_id=103014717
EM Reilly stalking rifle with a Jones underlever action. The serial number of this rifle shows it was made in 1874. The rifle appears to be in caliber 360EX (360 BPE, 9.3x57/360). 28" barrel.



23012
https://www.lot-art.com/auction-lot...Y-and-CO/442-360_obsolete-30.3.22-antony
A .360 OBSOLETE CALIBRE HAMMER ROOK RIFLE BY REILLY & CO, 27.75inch sighted blued barrel fitted with rear leaf sights and engraved E. M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD ST. LONDON. signed back action lock, rotary under lever mechanism, half stocked with chequered fore-end and wrist, serial no. 23012.


27515
http://gavingardiner.com/BidCat/detail.asp?SaleRef=0032&LotRef=264
.410 single barrel hammer gun, No. 27515 converted from a rook rilfe: 26-inch octagonal barrel; file-cut top surface, 2 ½-inch chamber, true cyllnder, automatic ejector. Rounded frame with central hammer and side levr; fine scroll engraving. Figured stock with pistol grip, 4lb. 14 oz. Nitro proof.


30284
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/asp/fullcatalogue.asp?salelot=S0717+++2804+&refno=++113350
E.M. REILLY CONVERTED .410 (SMOOTHBORE) SINGLE-BARRELLED TOPLEVER ROOK RIFLE, serial no. 30284, 25 1/4in. octagonal nitro barrel with matt top-flat, engraved 'E.M. REILLY & CO. OXFORD ST. LONDON.', 2 1/2in. chamber, scoop-back action, cocking indicator stud, triggerplate-mounted manual safety, 14 1/4in. semi-pistolgrip stock (some marking), weight 4lb. 8oz.


31130
https://www.holtsauctioneers.com/as...24+++2018+&refno=220668&image=2A
.380 (L/R ROOK) TRANTER'S PATENT ROOK & RABBIT
RIFLE SIGNED E.M REILLY & CO. serial no. 31130, circa 1900, with octagonal 21in. sighted barrel, the Oxford street address heavily rubbed, Tranter patent action with push-button barrel lock and manual extraction, central hammer and chequered walnut butt-stock with no provision for fore-end, cleaned.


35249
https://www.antonycribb.com/auction...k-rifle-by-e-m-reilly/?lot=2173&sd=1
A .380 OBSOLETE CALIBRE ROOK RIFLE BY E. M. REILLY - 26inch sighted octagonal barrel fitted with rear leaf sights, engraved with the manufacturer's details, border and foliate engraved push button action, the left side stamped TRANTER'S PATENT S5249, border and scroll engraved steel mounts, the wooden butt with chequered wrist, cracked and restored.

Gene,

The .40 needle fire from J C Militaria has what looks like a Liege (ELG in an oval) proof mark on the barrel.

.30284 .410 conversion from .360 Rook Rifle has what is known as the “slab sided hammerless” action.

I am fairly sure that these actions were sourced from Belgium as I examined an example by Rigby at Holt’s that had Belgian Proof marks in the original Rook calibre throughout, and I can’t see Rigby sending it to Belgium for Proof if it was made in the U.K.

My own example, by Edwinson Green, started life as a .295 being rifled by Adams and Tait in Birmingham and proofed there.

It was then lined to .22 rimfire and has since been bored out to .410 2 1/2 inch.

Thanks Para. Your observations have been very knowledgeable and helpful. They made me go back and look carefully at these Reilly marketed guns and putting them all together was an interesting exercise. Side-by-Side comparisons of other long gun types might pay dividends. Liège sourcing makes sense especially post 1880. Tranter like Reilly had very early connections to Liège going back to their first revolver. Gene

Picked this up recently so I thought I would throw it in here for y'all.

Thanks Aaron. That is extremely helpful - there are not that many around. That's the second Reilly cartridge you've posted, the first one (with an 1855 on it) being a rifle cartridge. (That rifle cartridge along with the date is very indicative and provocative - by 1855 center-break breech loaders were few and far between in UK - maybe 100 max?). This cartridge is probably dated to between late 1859 to 1868 or so being it is stamped with the EM Reilly name. The first cartridges he marketed had only "Reilly."

I'll post the chapter on Reilly cartridges again. Whether Reilly actually made these or had them made for him first in France and later by Eley is not known. If he did decide to make cartridges himself it was probably relatively short lived, from 1859 (see the 1858 letter to "The Field") to 1872 or so. At some point he apparently switched to having Eley make them for him.

==========================================================

*42 Reilly Cartridges and Ammunition Following is a cursory look at Reilly’s involvement in the cartridge business, which came to be a major revenue producer for him. Specialists in cartridges may have more information on the subject.

For the first five years of Lefaucheaux pin-fire history in the UK, 1854-1860 the majority of the shells and shell hulls used were imported from France. There is a Reilly 12 gauge rifle pin-fire cartridge dated 1855 probably imported from France.*42a The French hulls of course were meant to be reloaded. During the 1858 trials a young Reilly employee was designated to do this task to assure all guns had equal charges, demonstrating Reilly’s involvement in the reloading business.*42b

The principle UK maker of shells and ammunition Eley seems to have begun offering pin-fire shells in early 1858; the first Eley ad for a breech loading cartridge is 02 January 1858 (possible for a rifle such as a Prince) and the first specifically for a pin-fire shotgun in March 1858.*42c


These Eley cartridges initially received bad reviews per letters to the Field.*42d.


In a letter he wrote to “The Field” in December 1857, EM Reilly complained about hide-bound practices of the UK cartridge establishment and the inability of UK ammunition makers to manufacture pin-fire shells even when given complete examples, plans and drawings.*42e


By that time Reilly was guaranteeing access to ammunition for gentlemen who bought his pin-fires. (Reilly said in his letter that up until 1857, breech loading shotguns were regarded essentially as "novelties" by the mainstream British press and clients, which may explain why Eley dithered.*42f


In an 1859 book by the editor of “The Field” the author “Stonehenge” pointed out that even at that late date at the very end of decade, French shells could be found in every town in UK and were clearly predominant.*42g


By 1858 it appears that Reilly, frustrated with Eley and possibly influenced by France, saw a marketing opportunity and had made the decision to go into the shotgun shell manufacturing and sales business. Reilly from the beginning of his involvement with pinfires, mentioned “cartridges” in his advertisements for breech-loaders. However, the first stand-alone mention in a Reilly advertisement of cartridge’s being sold appeared in June 1859.*42h Who made the cartridge casings for Reilly is unknown. It is possible that he imported them from France under contract with his name stamped on the base, or he may have found a local manufacturer.



Note: A drawing of a Reilly cartridge which appeared in a book published in early 1860 shows a pinfire 12 bore cartridge with only "Reilly" stamped on the case much like the 1855 12 bore cartridge pictured above.*42i The name of the company changed to E.M. Reilly & Co. circa Feb 1859.*42j. This may indicate that Reilly was filling and selling his own cartridges in 1858-early 1859.


Centripetal Machine: In 1861 he patented a new machine for crimping shells called a “centripetal device.”*42k This patent was renewed twice in 1891 and 1892.*42l



Cost of pinfire cartridges: In 1859 “Stonehenge” recorded the cost of French pin-fire cartridges, 2£ 10s per 1000 cartridges. In modern dollars that would be around $450 for 1000 cartridges, an average of about $11.25 per box of 25, $.45 per cartridge.*42m. (Cheaper than RST today).

Reilly continued to manufacture and sell his own shells for the next 40 years making the jump to marketing centerfire hulls and cartridges around 1865. This was apparently a significant stream of income for the company. Reilly shells (in centerfire format) have been found in archeological digs including an investigation of an old whaling station in New Zealand*42n and in Saskatchewan, Canada.*42o By the 1890's he was providing buyers with options on smokeless powders.*42p.


There is some question about if and when he began to use Eley as a source for his cartridge hulls; the Reilly cartridges unearthed in the archeological dig in Canada allegedly were made by Eley (no pictures to confirm this).*42q. However, in 1868 Reilly definitively for the first time advertised the sale of "Eley's best quality green case" cartridges (50 shillings per thousand empty; 150 shillings per thousand loaded with proper charge). Years later In 1899 Reilly again began advertising the sale of Eley cartridges in his store. This was perhaps an acknowledgement that his cartridge business had succumbed to the weight of specialized mass production.*42r.

Argo have you seen the Gavin Gardiner catalog for the 30th of this month? A few Reilly's in it.

Thanks Mike. I saw those. I already had four of them; one was new.

There are now 715 Reilly guns whose parameters are known in the database on p.57. Presuming Reilly numbered around 33,700 guns from 1828 to 1912, that represents about 2.1% of the total, a good sample. We're now down to about 20 or so new numbers appearing each year - and there are also about 30 guns which have been auctioned off but whose numbers were not published which sooner or later will turn up. The new numbers haven't forced a change in the dating chart in about three years.

The chart really needs a few more guns from 1835-1847 to provide more clarity on that time period. There is a Maharajah in India who has 15 or so antique Reilly's. I've tried to correspond with his son using some old contacts from India days but to no avail.

"The maharajas were great collectors of empire's bric-a-brac. The tomblike salons exuded a Dickensian squalor and were crammed with sambar heads and taxidermic elephants in full regalia, horse racing trophies, and stuffed fantail snipes. There were lamps with deer hooves for stands, electrically illuminated peacocks, glasses with boar-tusk handles, and beautiful English guns from the London firm of E. M. Reilly.
http://www.cntraveler.com/stories/2007-04-16/karma-express


Gene Williams

Diggory Hadoke forwarded pictures of an old Reilly 12 ga. SN 21377 (circa Feb 1878 per the dating chart) which he said was pretty buggered up.



However it is interesting for 4 reasons:

1) the SN on the water table 23177 is different from the number on the tang, barrels, and forearm 21377. The SN is no doubt 21377. This is the third extant Reilly found with this sort of mistake:



2) Per above photo it appeared that there was a Purdey patent 1104 use number 3587 on the water table. However, the purdey patent expired in 02 May 1877. Previously the last such Purdey 1104 PUN was found on Reilly SN 20623 (Dec 1876), PUN 3463. There is a 1104 PUN 4257 on SN 20112 (early 1876). However, upon further investigation this is actually a Scott Spindle patent (WMS) #2752 PUN in Purdey style since they were often bundled together and the Scott patent didn't actually expire until 1879.


Scott Spindle patent (WMS) 2752 sample PUN from SN 21839


3). The Gun is left handed the first I’ve seen:


4). It belong to some Royal. Left-handedness was discouraged in the Victorian era. Queen Victoria herself was left handed but was made to write right handed. So far Diggory has not discovered which royal this might be – lack of records. (Diggory said the seller claimed it was Lord Ripon's gun but he was right-handed.)

This gun is interesting for two reasons.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns/reilly-e-m/side-by-side/10-gauge/unknown-250312155009009


1) in this case the SN on the water-table 19286 is correct and the number on the barrel flats and fore-end mis-stamped 19206. The reason this must be so is that the number on the tang is 1928. Per the seller, the gun was restocked with a pistol grip and shortened at some point many years ago and the 6 on the end cut off the tang.
Previous Photos from IGC:


2) The gun was previously discussed about 20 years ago on Internet Gun Club. Their comments are attached below. The IGC response was pretty good for the time dating the gun to 1874-75 (the correct date is 1874). (Their comments on Reilly's manufacturing actives and the origin of the gun are obviously pre-this line's research and their comment on the dates of the Reilly shop in Paris are not correct). However, there is one glaring error; No matter the 1975 proof mark change adding "Not for Ball," if a shotgun did not have a choke, it would not be so marked even after the change in the law; a lot of shotguns continued to be sold without chokes up to and after 1880.

============================. IGC Comment ===========================

https://www.internetgunclub.com/archived-forum/posts.php?topicid=1344
I am a new member to this excellent forum and would value some assistance on the aforementioned gun. A little bit of current information;

- 10 bore hammergun, rebounding hammers, breech face in good condition with no pitting; some relatively basic scroll engraving. Table reads "H Walker's 1098 Patent"
- 30 inch Damascus barrels, excellent condition with v minor exterior pitting in some areas. Game/concave rib, wedge and escutcheon fore-end; recently nitro-proofed
- Semi pistol grip stock with original heel plate; some minor marking and one small (1cm) chip out of stock close to action.

Confusingly, the gun has a slight difference in serial numbers; the table reads 19286, the barrels and foreend 19206, the trigger guard 1928 – could the table be a mistaken number? Any help on assessing what the proof marks mean would be most helpful!

Guidance on history, originality and possible value would be greatly appreciated. I would like to use the gun ongoing for ‘fowling so am genuinely keen to find out more. A brief review of the history of Reilly could indicate manufacture between 1869-1872 (due to Paris address), but happy to be proven wrong here.

Guidance on history, originality and possible value would be greatly appreciated. I would like to use the gun ongoing for ‘fowling so am genuinely keen to find out more. A brief review of the history of Reilly could indicate manufacture between 1869-1872 (due to Paris address), but happy to be proven wrong here.

P.S. I cannot get photos onto this posting despite following directions. Any hints appreciated as I have several which may aid the identification of this gun
++++++++++++++response from “Tiger”++++++++++++++++++
As far as we know, the Reillys, like most gunmakers, bought the various components and assembled them, or bought almost complete guns "in-the-white", stocked and finished them, and put their name on them. Although this gun has London proof marks, all of it is likely to have been made in Birmingham. Nothing wrong with that, good servicable weapons of better quality than anywhere else in the world for the price. The "Best" quality in a London gun came mainly from the final finishing which added a little to reliability and "feel" but most to beauty / elegance and pride of ownership.

Your gun was a nominal 10 bore but actually measured 11 bore. Lovely damascus barrels bearing the crown over V London View Mark (1637-1954) for preliminary inspection, the crown over bar over GP Provisional Proof Mark (1813-date) to reveal faults before any expensive work was done on the barrels, and the crown over GP London Definitive Proof Mark (1637 to date), all these adding up to Black Powder Proof. The barrel flats have two of these original marks as expected.

The action flats have the expected View mark, and they have the H Walker patent mark for his barrel bolting and safety for drop-down actions patent No 455 of 12 February 1872 ( Use No. 1098 ) .

Of equal importance to the marks are the ones that don't appear e.g. no NOT FOR BALL or CHOKE mark (so see what patterns it throws with various cartridges). The first of these was introduced in 1875, so this and the patent date mean the gun was made definitely not before Feb 72, or after 1875.

It must have been made a couple of years after 1872, say 1874 to early 1875, and we favour the latter because even if the gun was made by a large trade maker, the 1098 use number is quite a large number. You will have noted that neither we nor anyone else really know when the Paris shop closed, we only think it was shortly after 1872.

The gun was re-proved after 2005, we can't read the crossed swords date code and confess to not having the key to these recent codes! The two crowns over SUP are for the Superior Proof Mark for 1200 Bars, 10x76 is 10 bore 76mm chambers; 19.4 is the barrel diameter and crown over BNP is the Birmingham Nitro Proof Mark. Crown over R is the re-proof mark - why it is deemed necessary we don't know!

We think you can take it that the serial number is 19286 and that the engraver was an old man with poor eyesight and and a bad memory. Unlike the other gun we mentioned, we don't think this gun is made up of muddled parts!