Dick, please note that I never said that were bad guns. Smith had them built to a specific price and that's what the Turk factory gave them. They're affordable guns that have proved popular at fund-raising dinners for various conservation organizations. I just wish that S&W had somebody at the factory to tell the makers that 17-pound+ trigger pulls won't do it. Paying attention when affixing top ribs also is good advice. But like I said, they have very nice wood, significantly better that what one would expect at that price.