I had a PH 16, factory rebarreled with V tubes, correctly SN'd, etc. Very open chokes. Shot it extremely well, figured it'd be a dandy grouse and woodcock gun. Not so, or at least not so for me, because where I hunt those birds, there's a lot of 1-handed carrying involved as you part the aspen whips. That one went about 6 3/4, and after a couple days in the UP, my right arm told me it was an overweight grouse gun, for me at least. #1 frame.