You make a good point, Bob. You're too hard on yourselves, too. Let me come at it another way: The US is broke, dependent on China to make the payroll to build aircraft carriers, pay the troops, roads and bridges, social services, all the amenities of a very progressive and civilized society. There's also the appearance of a dysfunctional government.

Communist China saving your bacon didn't happen overnight nor the fault of you, Drew, Craig, Jim, Mike and all other members here whom I feel I know fairly well from what they say. It's a consequence of what the American people chose, deliberately and consciously, at the ballot box. Does that make Americans spendthrifts who can't govern themselves? No, it does not. The US has been overly generous in making its empire.

Which comes to the British Empire: a dominating power throughout the world, and the US succeeded it to make its own. Both became over-extended and both withdrew from their far-flung outposts when the costs in blood and treasure exceeded their resources to continue. US now looks to its friends to do more, as did Great Britain when it stood alone for years against the fascists before the US got into it---for years, twice.

As in any struggle, and I think of the US proposals as a serious struggle for the shooting sports, there are going to be casualties on both sides. It's important, however, to make a distinction between enemies and adversaries. Enemies we destroy but adversaries are opponents to defeat whom we may need later as an ally, as a Liberal leader said here the other day. The pro-gun lobby here didn't demonize anyone in getting rid of the gun registry.

Labelling members of a particular political party as inimical to the national interests, as citizens below the salt as liars and worse, would not have provided the relatively harmonious and productive result we got in Canada. (Yes, I agree, oldstarfire, that there's a lot more to be done!)

Regards, King