OK, thanks to all. They are both 12 gauges. I am way on the back nine of life, have had a number of pump guns, and have two (quite awesomely stocked) model 870s, a model 42, and a model 37 Ithaca. No problem with any of these. I have pumped these problem guns hard and soft and still have a problem. I will take them tomorrow and REALLY pump them; report thereafter.