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Forums10
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 916 Likes: 1 |
But I tend to think (we can only surmise) that the guys who designed and built the 21 believed the additional machining to create the dovetail joints made a stronger joint than simply soldering flat lumps.
Jay Upon what information do you base your opinion? The marketing guys can write a lot of stuff but they can't rewrite the rules pertaining to engineering, materials properties and physics. A manufacturer (of anything) is as likely to adopt a "feature" based upon a PERCEIVED benefit as an ACTUAL one. The only actual benefit of the dovetailed chopper lump would have been to act as an aid in assembly of the barrels. A benefit to the factory workman, but no benefit whatsoever to the shooter. I'm well aware of BSA's use of dovetailed lumps and everything about the 21 applies here as well. Many of the English's patented "innovations" were little more than gimmicks aimed at gaining market share. THAT is what Winchester took from the British when marketing the 21. If the dovetailed construction was truly a benefit, why has NO ONE ELSE employed it? Especially best makers? Do they fear treading upon the hallowed ground of the Model 21? I don't think so. Most likely is that their engineering departments came up with a similar assessment to mine, just a lot earlier. Hmmm ... I'm puzzled, can't see where we disagree Dewey. Maybe you mistook me, as nothing in your response seems to me inconsistent with my suggestion that the guys that built the gun believed the dovetails made a stronger joint. Of course I could be wrong, can't know what they thought. My surmise about what was in their minds is all about perception, and derives from agreement with you on this: "A manufacturer (of anything) is as likely to adopt a "feature" based upon a PERCEIVED benefit as an ACTUAL one." I thought I was clear in acknowledging your expert assessment that there's no benefit of added strength. No need to persuade me that advertising hype (of most if not all makers) doesn't affect the reality of engineering. Nor reason to challenge me with a question of why others haven't adopted dovetail lumps -- I didn't and don't assert that the dovetail lumps are better than other methods of joining chopper lump barrels. Jay
Last edited by Gunflint Charlie; 10/31/15 09:44 PM.
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Entire Thread
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Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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CMWill
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10/30/15 05:24 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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10/30/15 05:52 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Drew Hause
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10/30/15 06:31 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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10/30/15 06:52 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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10/31/15 01:52 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Buzz
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10/31/15 01:40 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Bob Cash
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10/31/15 01:58 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Ted Schefelbein
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10/31/15 02:03 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Bob Cash
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10/31/15 02:20 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Ted Schefelbein
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10/31/15 03:40 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/02/15 01:37 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Laxcoach
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10/30/15 07:48 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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treblig1958
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10/30/15 07:50 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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treblig1958
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10/31/15 03:20 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Ken Nelson
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10/30/15 08:25 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Drew Hause
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10/30/15 08:32 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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10/30/15 08:39 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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eightbore
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10/30/15 10:07 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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10/31/15 07:20 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Ted Schefelbein
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10/31/15 02:31 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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10/31/15 03:28 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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HomelessjOe
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11/02/15 12:12 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/02/15 12:51 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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treblig1958
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10/31/15 04:58 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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David Williamson
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10/31/15 12:42 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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UpInMichigan
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10/31/15 01:18 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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10/31/15 07:10 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Shotgunlover
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10/31/15 01:50 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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treblig1958
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10/31/15 02:01 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Drew Hause
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10/31/15 02:45 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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eightbore
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10/31/15 03:19 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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old colonel
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10/31/15 06:31 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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10/31/15 06:44 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Buzz
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10/31/15 07:17 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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PERLY88
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11/03/15 01:51 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/03/15 03:24 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Gunflint Charlie
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11/03/15 03:37 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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10/31/15 08:01 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Gunflint Charlie
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10/31/15 08:22 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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10/31/15 09:20 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Gunflint Charlie
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10/31/15 11:24 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 12:23 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Gunflint Charlie
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11/01/15 01:30 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 03:33 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Gunflint Charlie
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11/01/15 03:59 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 04:15 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Researcher
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10/31/15 11:27 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 12:25 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Buzz
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11/01/15 01:01 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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GregSY
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11/01/15 02:02 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 03:13 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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drduc
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11/01/15 04:04 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 04:06 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/01/15 03:18 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/01/15 02:02 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Gunflint Charlie
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11/01/15 02:17 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Tom C
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11/01/15 02:24 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Lloyd3
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11/01/15 02:25 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/01/15 03:13 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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KWD
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11/01/15 02:44 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 03:19 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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old colonel
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11/01/15 09:46 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/01/15 10:17 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Ted Schefelbein
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11/02/15 12:03 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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HomelessjOe
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11/02/15 12:06 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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drduc
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11/01/15 03:00 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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drduc
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11/01/15 04:06 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 04:18 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Joe Wood
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11/01/15 04:24 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Ghostrider
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11/01/15 04:57 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 05:16 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Stanton Hillis
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11/01/15 11:56 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/01/15 12:28 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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treblig1958
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11/01/15 12:58 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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KY Jon
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11/01/15 02:33 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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GregSY
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11/01/15 02:48 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/01/15 02:57 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 03:16 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Double Lab
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11/01/15 04:15 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Stanton Hillis
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11/01/15 08:30 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/01/15 02:52 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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LeFusil
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11/01/15 03:06 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/01/15 03:14 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 03:19 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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moses
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11/01/15 09:28 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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treblig1958
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11/01/15 03:19 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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wyobirds
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11/01/15 03:33 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Ted Schefelbein
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11/01/15 03:42 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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gunut
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11/01/15 04:27 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Ted Schefelbein
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11/01/15 07:17 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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David Williamson
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11/01/15 03:56 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/01/15 04:21 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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keith
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11/01/15 04:14 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Stanton Hillis
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11/01/15 08:14 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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cherry bomb
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11/01/15 08:15 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/01/15 08:34 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 08:49 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/01/15 08:55 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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gunut
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11/01/15 09:06 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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B. Dudley
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11/01/15 11:45 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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KY Jon
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11/02/15 04:00 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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King Brown
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11/02/15 04:28 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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2-piper
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11/02/15 12:06 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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ed good
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11/02/15 12:11 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Shotgunlover
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11/02/15 01:49 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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WagonWillie
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11/02/15 03:22 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/02/15 03:44 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/02/15 03:48 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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WagonWillie
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11/02/15 03:52 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/02/15 04:01 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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wingshooter16
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11/03/15 12:21 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Shotgunlover
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11/02/15 04:09 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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2-piper
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11/02/15 04:56 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Shotgunlover
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11/02/15 10:05 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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eightbore
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11/02/15 10:51 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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WagonWillie
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11/03/15 01:17 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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canvasback
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11/03/15 02:47 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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wingshooter16
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11/03/15 06:17 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Brian
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11/03/15 02:18 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Stanton Hillis
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11/03/15 02:28 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/03/15 04:23 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Geo. Newbern
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11/03/15 03:33 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Stanton Hillis
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11/03/15 12:10 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Shotgunlover
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11/03/15 01:26 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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ClapperZapper
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11/03/15 01:45 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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2-piper
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11/03/15 03:18 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/04/15 12:25 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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KY Jon
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11/03/15 03:41 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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ClapperZapper
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11/03/15 04:14 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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ed good
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11/03/15 06:23 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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keith
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11/03/15 08:54 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/03/15 11:26 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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ed good
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11/03/15 11:15 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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ed good
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11/03/15 11:47 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/04/15 02:06 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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ed good
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11/04/15 02:55 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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2-piper
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11/04/15 03:25 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/04/15 03:36 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/04/15 12:55 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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wingshooter16
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11/04/15 02:13 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/04/15 04:53 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/04/15 09:57 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/05/15 01:31 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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2-piper
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11/04/15 03:53 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Anonymous
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11/04/15 04:04 AM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Mark Larson
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11/07/15 05:26 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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2-piper
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11/07/15 08:01 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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Run With The Fox
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11/07/15 09:03 PM
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Re: Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies
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WagonWillie
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11/08/15 12:04 AM
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