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Outlier Serial Numbers

-- On P. 20 is the new short history of Reilly; I stand by every word of it. It includes a chart dating serial numbers.
-- On P. 22 is the list of extant or known Reilly guns by SN.
Everything advances in order from (c1825) 001 to about 3400 in 1847. Then once at 502 New Oxford Street the main-line picks up at about SN 8400 and continues unbroken to about 36,000 (1912)...with a side line reserved by J.C....from about 7000 to 8060 (early 1847 to Sep 1857).

Well, into this well-ordered universe...and E.M was organized....outliers - odd serial numbers - occasionally come to light. Here are 6 of them with discussions, illustrating that even if your gun has an out of sequence SN, it might still be dated using other means.

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3007 - It had to have been made after Jan 1859 and may not be a Reilly number - might actually be 13007 ?????

Advertisement:
http://www.tennants.co.uk/Catalogue/Lots/225065.aspx
A 19th Century 16 Bore Double Barrel Pinfire Shotgun by E.M. Reilly & Co., 315 Oxford Street, London, the 73.5cm browned steel barrel signed on the rib, with Birmingham proof marks and numbered 3007, with signed foliate engraved back action, under-lever break, walnut stock with chequered grip and fore-end


Discussion: Address shows it cannot have been made before Jan 1859 when Reilly opened 315 Oxford St. it is a center break gun. With a Jones underlever, patent was given in Sep 1859, you could push the first possible date further forward but I've seen a muzzle loader converted to center break many years later. It has Birmingham proof marks and the "SN" is uncharacteristically on the barrel. This is either not a Reilly SN - all Reilly SN'd guns at the time were London proofed - or it is an outlier. There are no photos of the SN...it could be a typo. Could it possibly be 13007 - 1863?

The gun is very similar to Terry Buffum's 13033. Perhaps there is a "1" missing from the front of the SN?


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3402 - SN would indicate early 1847 - address shows it to be post Feb 1868 Terry Buffum

Advertisement:
https://live.amoskeagauction.com/m/lot-details/index/catalog/18/lot/6687?url=%2Fm%2Fsearch%3Fkey%3Dreilly
.577 cal, Rifle SxS; Percussion hammer gun, Muzzle Loader (Buffum).
serial #3402, about .58 cal, 23 1/2” heavy four groove rifled bores rating about excellent showing some very light frosting. The barrels show very nice contrasting gray and brown mottled damascus twist their full-length, showing also some remnants of some very light pinprick pitting scattered about the left tube. The left tube is maker marked with London address, the right with “& Rue Scribe Paris”. ...The locks are crisp and mechanically functional and feature forward-sliding safeties, the case-hardened breeches feature platinum blowout plugs and both of the triggers show nice checkering on their faces; (3B7147-157) {ANTIQUE} [Terry Buffum Collection]





Discussion: The right tube has "rue Scribe." It is a muzzle loader. But with rue Scribe it has to be after Feb 1868....the earliest gun with rue Scribe we've found is 12 bore's 14983.. So the SN is unexplainably quirky. Given the completeness of the address, I still think Reilly made the gun.

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3514. - Label would place it between late 1855-Jan 1959 - Might be 13514?

Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street, London. 13bore. Shotgun SxS. Muzzle loader, hammer gun.
Advertisement:
C1850 - CASED IN ORIGINAL MAHOGANY CASE WITH REILLY TRADE LABEL.BARRELS MARKED 13 BORE. RIB ENGRAVED WITH REILEY, 502 NEW OXFORD STREET, LONDON. DAMASCUS BARRELS WITH RAMROD. GOOD COLOURED ACTION WITH SOME SCROLL ENGRAVING. LARGE TRIGGER GUARD ENGRAVED WITH DOGS. PINEAPPLE FINIALS. STOCK REPAIRED. OVERALL GOOD CLEAN FIREABLE CONDITION.
https://www.guntrader.uk/guns/shotguns-black-powder/reilly/percussion/12-gauge/170610144659005



Discussion: Reilly, 502 New Oxford Street would indicated it were made between April 1847 and Oct 1859 when the name of the company formally changed to E.M. Reilly & Co. It is neither part of the JC "7000" series nor the main-line Reilly series. However, the label is one used between late 1855/1856 and Jan 1859 (with the medals from the 1851 and 1855 world fairs). In spite of the odd number, I feel Reilly made the gun.

Edit: 3514 is very close to this gun in lines..12920. 12920 has a similar label but with EM Reilly and the building sketch. Thus I'm inching towards believing there should be a "1" in front of this number 13514, and the case is either older than the gun or an old label was used.



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10021 - SN would place it 1856; However it has to be post 1865 - a remanufactured Enfield with a Snider breech added?

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https://www.easyliveauction.com/catalogu...seur-collector/
A .577" Volunteer Snider 3 band rifle by Reilly, 55" overall, barrel 36˝" with London proofs and Enfield inspector's mark, the breech block having "Snider Patent" mark; lock bearing crowned "VR" and "1865" over "L.A. Co" and engraved "E.M. Reilly & Co, New Oxford St, London"; walnut fullstock with brass mounts, trigger guard with eyelet securing chain and nipple protector, and numbered 10,021; with single sling swivel, original steel ramrod, muzzle plug, German silver rearsight cover stamped "Snider", and with registration mark, and triangular socket bayonet (no scabbard),


Discussion: Clearly a military rifle retailed by Reilly and proofed by Enfield. It has to be post 1865 (Snider patent). Thus is cannot have a Reilly 10000 SN which would have had it being made about 1856 if it were originally made as a Snider. I could believe 15021 - 1868. But unfortunately the SN is not pictured so it remains unclear. The brass trigger housing though is similar to other Reilly-made and serial numbered Enfields and Sniders and the stock neck seems slimmer than a normal Enfield/Snider. Reilly sold wholesale rifles to the Yoemanry militia and rifle clubs; usually these "volunteer" rifles were not made by him, only ordered and retailed. It could be that it was originally an 1856 Muzzle-Loading Enfield, remanufactured with the Snider breech - However, in such a case the name on the barrel would have been "Reilly," not "E.M. Reilly & Co."

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4573 - Address dates it to between Aug 1835 and Mar 1847 - Note the bore size stamp...

Advertisement:
https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/76/400/engraved-jc-reilly-percussion-sporting-gun
The smoothbore barrel gauges just over 6 bore at the muzzle (.93) and has a post front sight, "J.C. REILLY 316 HIGH HOLBORN LONDON" on top at the breech, and London proofs, "7" and "4573" on the bottom. The breech, locks, and furniture all have classic scroll patterns and engraved line borders. The serial number on the lower tang is faint. The stock is checkered at the wrist and has a flat buttplate. The address on the barrel indicates the gun was manufactured approximately 1835-1847 based on Joseph Charles Reilly's move dates. .. 6 bore guns were used for hunting elephants and other big and dangerous game in Africa and India in the 19th century.



Discussion:
Terry Buffum thought this J.C. Reilly so unusual that he bought it...going down the Reilly rabbit-hole again! The SN doesn't fit known patterns but the address would date in between 1835-47 per above. Once he receives it, he'll photograph it and analyze it and I'll post more, In the meantime, it's a familiar shape and size...just an unfamiliar number. The ad writer at least got the Reilly dates at High Holborn right...a first..showing he's glanced at this line - though the fact there are other errors in the ad show he didn't read it all very carefully - wonder if the ad writer is related to one of our posters? I think J.C. was more "flexible" on his numbering system than his son E.M.

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9137. - not a Reilly SN

Advertisement:
http://milpas.cc/rifles/ZFiles/Odd%20Fel...2040%20Cal..htm
NeedlefireTarget Rifle E.M. Reilly 40 Cal.
E.M. Reilly & Co, 502 Oxford St. London


Discussion: Reilly sold a lot of these rook rifles with his name on them. But so did others - identical guns. This is the only one I can find with a SN. It has E.M Reilly & Co...on the barrel which normally would indicate it was post Oct 1859. However the SN, if it were a Reilly, would date it to 1851, an impossibility. So Reilly likely retailed this rifle - he did not make it.

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I'll add this comment: A couple of "3000" numbers above look to be missing a "1" in front of the number. I've found anotherr Reilly in the 2000 series with a "1" almost illegible on the back of the number. Perhaps "1"'s were subject to wear...or perhaps they just weren't put on certain guns.

Also, especially in from the mid-1870's-1890 thereabouts Reilly "3"'s and "5"'s could be very difficult to distinguish. Terry Buffum noted this; some of his guns that he thought had a "5" actually had a "3" when brought to auction, etc. Earlier number engraving on the tang seemed to vary more.


Last edited by Argo44; 01/29/20 10:49 PM.
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