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Redoing the history/chronology - New start date for Reilly guns - changed from 1825 to Summer 1828

The fact that Reilly did not join the Worshipful Company of Gun Makers in 1825 (as was sort of alleged by a 1926 book) made me go back and look again at the first advertisements for Reilly guns;. Based on this, I've decided to move the start date for his actually making guns to summer 1828 based on following logic:

1. There were several ads for Reilly selling guns in 1828 and 1829 but no mention of him actually making his own guns (there are still newspapers from that period being copied and put on line so in a couple of years this might change again):

24 Aug 1828, "Bell's Life". - (read this carefully...it's coded)


14 Jun 1829, "Bell's Life" - (read this one carefully too).


2. The 1829 London Directory and London Post Office both still list him as "jeweler" (Sun Fire Company Insurance Documents show Joseph Charles Reilly as a Jeweller, silversmith and dealer in firearms July 1829):



3. The first advertisement indicating overtly he was specifically selling his own guns, legally proofed, is 18 July 1830, "Bell's Life":


4. The first advertisement where he identified himself as "Gun Maker" was May 1831 "New Sporting Magazine" (previously posted):


5. So, Originally I thought I'd hold him at his word and change the chronology and history to reflect summer 1830 as the date he began to make guns.

6. However, re-reading the 1828 advertisement, it seems clear he was making "unsanctioned" guns (which could be sanctioned by a "nominal authority" for "an exorbitant price"), and that these unsanctioned guns were quality guns. I.e., I think he was making them...but perhaps not submitting them for proof? The wording of the ad is subtle, almost code (psst, you want good gun...come eentoo zee alley...bargain)... The 1829 ad also makes clear that he was selling two types of guns, one group of guns that were his (that he was making?) and another group made by excellent makers (used guns). So....I'm going to put the start date for his making guns to Summer 1828.

This could change as more newspapers from that era come on-line - probably moving back to 1827-26 because you don't just start making guns and sell 50 in the first year. Oh wait, on second thought....Amazon, Walmart. 3 difference in a gun price in 1828 would be the equivilent of 350 today - but as a portion of income...it would be much much more than it appears. So, if you sold a good product that undercut the establishment price by 30% - voila...Walmart in 1828...the customers would come, even the well-to-do. 3 was a monthly income for some.

Note...In May 1902, 74 years and two generations later, H.H. (Bert) Reilly, to promote the company as it was struggling, added "Established 1835" to his advertisements (a lot of London establishments were doing this at that time). Bert Reilly obviously did not know the history of the company - we now know more than he did - which makes me wonder whether the company records had survived to his day - There were definitely records when E.M. died...here's an excerpt from his will (one guesses that this lets out any possibility that she took over the business):
"Also I give to my wife my household furniture, plate, linen, china, glass, picture books (other than trade books)...."

07 Jun 1902, "The Field":

The two charts, the chronology of extant guns on p.44 and the SN dating chart attached to the history on p.45 have been altered as has the history. The new list actually fits better than the old. It puts the first SN Reilly at 316 High Holborn, 1024, which would have been in Fall 1835..exactly in that time period...the previous chart had it in Spring...an impossibility. (of course given the paucity of guns from the period - it's all pretty much speculation - put at least it's educated speculation).

And of course the questions immediately arise:
-- Is the "nominal authority" the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers? (Perhaps why the Reilly's never bought their way to Freeman status?)
-- How much did it cost to proof a gun in London in 1828? (Must have been a lot)
-- Why did Reilly claim the proofing was by a "nominal authority?"
-- Was there a law in 1828 that London guns had to be proofed?
-- By 1830 in his ads, he clearly states he was building guns according to the "new proof laws." What were these?
Turn a stone over, more questions.

Last edited by Argo44; 07/16/20 11:20 PM.
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