Originally Posted by Argo44
There are no Reilly records.

And there is still no evidence that Reilly had a fairly large gun manufacturing facility that had upwards of 300 people employed in the production of all manner of firearms.

I keep checking in to see if something has been found, since we were promised substantive evidence. But what we get is still more usage of the word gunmaker as found in a number of old advertisments. The longer this goes on, the more accurate this following assessment appears to be:

Originally Posted by Geo. Newbern
I don't know whether E.M. Reilly was a maker or a merchant. My first British double was a Reilly boxlock I acquired from for sale ad here back in the '90's. I inquired here at the time and the prevailing wisdom seemed to be that Reilly wasn't a maker. Our friend Gene has done a yeoman's task of investigation and has been kind enough to share his work with all of us. While I appreciate his work, I cannot yet agree with is conclusion which is counter to the historic opinion on Reilly. I think E.M. Reilly was for his time the epidemy of the tradition of the British gun trade as a multi-layered combination of outworker craftsmen and sales companies whose names appeared on the guns of the period. With, of course a few actual manufacturers whose names and bonafides have traditionally been accepted in the business...Geo

We had a guy right here on this forum who bragged for years about his "award winning wines". As it turned out, he wasn't a wine maker at all. He had a little vineyard of a couple acres, and was the smallest supplier of grapes that were purchased by an actual wine making company that did all of the processing, fermenting, bottling, and sales. Then, as now, there are people who are prone to exaggerating their position and place in life. And nowhere has this behavior been seen more frequently than in advertising claims. The false and absurdly questionable claims made by many in the firearms business are no exception.

Originally Posted by AlanD
Great research skills as usual.

Alan

Well... I suppose so... if one is impressed by sheer volume, with little regard for accuracy and analysis. For instance, look at this statement. Not many guys even live to be 90, let alone are working gunmakers for 90 years:

Originally Posted by Argo44
Reilly dealt in used guns taken on trade and sold guns under license.*3b However, he only serial numbered guns he built and he numbered his guns consecutively for 90 years with certain exceptions during the move to New Oxford-Street in 1847.

But that's nothing compared to Methusela of the Bible, so it must be true. Something else that literally jumped out at me is the information about Reilly's business at 502 New Oxford Street. The "research" describes it as a "huge" building of 10,000 square feet. That sounds pretty big, unless you are even a little bit familiar with manufacturing operations that employ around 300 employees. In reality, that would be extremely small, especially for a building that also contained offices and retail sales space. Do the math, and divide 10,000 sq. ft. by 300 employees. You get a work area of 33.33 sq. ft. per employee. That's little more than 5 by 6 feet per man. And that small closet sized area per man would have to include hand tools, barrel boring machinery, other machinery, work benches, vises, jigs and fixtures, parts inventory, stock blanks, bluing, case hardening, and wood finishing facilities, partially finished guns of all descriptions, along with completed guns and merchandise for sale... and our poor guy with less room to turn around than a canned sardine.

Our undaunted researcher qualifies this with unfounded claims that complete guns were being built in London in that era in shops the size of a kitchen. But just how many kitchens are only 33 sq. ft., other than in a small camping trailer???

Then take a close look at the pictures that are alleged to be of this building at 502 New Oxford St. It is clearly evident that they aren't even the same building. The entire facade is different. The architecture is totally different. And neither appears like they would accommodate anywhere near 300 employees.

Originally Posted by Argo44
. . . . .*9b – Photos; Sketch, photos of 502 New Oxford Street: Comment: The size of this building alone shows that Reilly was engaged in large scale manufacturing. There is no evidence that the Reilly family lived in the building so the entire space was devoted to commercial sales, offices and manufacturing.
From Dec 1847 Label:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


Originally Posted by Argo44
From Google Earth in present day:
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]

========== *9 502 New Oxford-Street END FOOTNOTES =============

But hope springs eternal with 90 percent left to come... unless Dave's server crashes from another 730 pages of copy and paste photos, advertisements with highlighted words, and lots of conjecture.

Originally Posted by Argo44
PAUSE: We're about 1/10th of the way through the Reilly documentation.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.