doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com E.M. Reilly; History; Chronology; Serial Numbers

. . . . . VII. CHARACTERISTICS OF REILLY GUNS AND PRODUCTS


*37 Comments on Reilly Stocks



There are consistent characteristics of Reilly stocks over the course of 90 years which can help identify an authentic Reilly:

. .-- Reilly used French Walnut:. Reilly from very early on reportedly used French walnut. During the 1830’s and 40’s his highly figured stocks differed from the standard English walnut offered by other makers and may be something of a marker.*37a

Note: This commentary on stocks is meant to be confined to Reilly. However, as background, per UK newspaper records, English walnut production was falling considerably short throughout the 1830’s and by 1840 Arsenal was importing Continental walnut stock blanks.

. . . . .-- There was debate about this in Parliament in 1843.*37b There certainly are numerous records for the importation of French and Continental walnut stock blanks in massive quantities into UK during the 1850’s. It is impossible to determine from raw shipping records who got what without shop accounts.*37c

. . . . .-- The lack of home grown walnut, however, elicited a great deal of concern in the English gun-making fraternity from 1840 on; numerous commentaries were written in journals and alternative woods to walnut searched for.*37d John Rigby in his introduction to the summary of guns shown at the 1862 London International Exposition had this to say:
. . . . . . . . ."Walnut, which is now almost universally used for gun stocks, is a scarce timber in England, and for years we have been obliged to seek our supplies abroad. Italy has exported the greater portion of the wood used in our Government arms for some time, and large numbers of French and other Continental gun stocks are also sent into this country." *37d(1)

. .-- In-house stock-maker:: Reilly likely had his own in-house stock makers. A good stock-maker at the time could produce up to 9 (military - not custom) stocks a week (according to an 1856 article comparing the just opened Enfield machine stock maker to handicraft stock makers).*37e. With his established connections to France, Reilly may have had his own methods of choosing and importing quality French walnut stock blanks.

. .-- Shotgun Straight Stocks:Reilly almost always throughout the history of the firm used a straight English stock for SxS shotguns.*37f

. .-- Big-bore Fowlers optional:The exception to this are big-bore fowlers; A goodly percentage of Reilly shotguns 10 bore or larger had some type of pistol grip although this was not ubiquitous and was quite personal.*37g

. .-- Pistol grip on Rifles:He almost always used a pistol grip stock for rifles,*37h and if not, early on a trigger-guard extension which aped a pistol grip (a "scroll guard").*37i

A number of Reilly post 1870 rifles were later converted to shotguns. If a Reilly 12 gauge and smaller "shotgun" has a pistol grip stock, it almost certainly was repurposed from a rifle. The markers for such a conversion are the pistol grip, barrel length less that 30” and weight.*37j

(After Riggs bought the name in 1922 most “Riggs-Reilly” guns, both shotguns and rifles, used "Prince of Wales" half-pistol grip stocks.)*37k


*38 1820-1900: Reilly Engraving

Reilly engraving evolved over the years and understanding its evolution may be helpful in dating guns. (Disclaimer: this is a cursory analysis of the engraving found on extant Reilly long-guns):

-- In the 1820’s-1830’s Reilly engraving was mostly simple “vine and scroll” patterns used by many gun makers at the time.*38a



-- By the early 1840’s and continuing into the 1950’s the motifs had advanced to a “large scroll” or “English scroll” design.*38b.



There may be more complex engraving during this time period on guns which no longer exist. For instance the company showed examples of embossing and chasing at the 1851 Crystal Palace world’s fair.*38c

Throughout the 1850’s and much of the 1860’s, the engraving continued to echo the above “simple vine and scroll” and “English Scroll” work although becoming more complex. Reilly built guns for Rajah’s and royalty during this period which were obviously higher grades but his bread and butter clientele were the mid-level army officers and lower-level country gentlemen. He did not choose to compete head-to-head for the high-end market with extremely ornate engravings, at least from the extent guns available today.*38d



-- Beginning in the mid-1860’s he began to used increasingly intricate and delicate “rose and scroll” patterns. He abandoned depictions of wildlife.*38e



-- And by the 1880’s and 1890’s his tight “rose and scroll” engravings were tasteful and pleasing and pretty ubiquitous although he also advertised plain-Jane “keepers guns." *38f



There are guns with wildlife scenes engraved on them, mostly from the muzzle-loading period. Some of this engraving is quite realistic. however, many of the depictions of birds and animals on Reilly engravings are cartoonish.*38g Some experienced London gunsmiths (David Trevallion among them) have said that many of the engravers in London at the time had never seen a wild deer, partridge or duck in their lives and drew from impressions or from others’ sketches. Whatever, it appears Reilly did not specialize in fine depictures of wild-life. This was left to other, higher-end makers.



Most London gun-makers during the 1860’s used outworker trade engravers. However, because Reilly was engraving about everything he sold at the time, retailed pistols, retailed long-guns, bayonets, knives, etc. - it is possible that he had an in-house engraving capability. This would have enabled him to meet orders twice as fast as other gun-makers and perhaps reduce costs.


*39 1828-1900; Reilly Barrels These are observations on Reilly Barrels obtained from looking primarily at photos of some 700 guns. For more complete understanding of Reilly's barrels, Dr. Drew Hause has an excellent publication on Damascus; William Greener's 1847 book is still as good as anything from that era.

. . . . .London proofed: From the beginning of the firm in 1828 until bankruptcy in 1912 nearly all serial numbered Reilly’s, i.e. guns built by Reilly, with original barrels were proofed in London.*39a There are a very few exceptions out of some 600 existing guns. This said, there are some difficulties in definitively proving this conclusion:
. . . . . . . . . .-- Research is severely hampered by the fact that auction houses and even individual owners rarely include proof marks (or patent use marks) in their advertisements.
. . . . . . . . . .-- In addition from the 1870’s-on numerous surviving Reilly’s have been reproofed over and over again or rebarreled making identification of original poofs sometimes difficult.*39b
However, for now for 98% of extant Reilly guns the truism holds – if it were serial numbered by Reilly, it was proofed in London.

. . . . .Bored and finished by Reilly, 1836-47: As early as 1837 Reilly advertised that he was boring/finishing his own barrels. For how long he continued to do so is unknown, but throughout the 1840’s he advertised fixing others’ bad barrels by reboring them adding, “no cure, no pay.”*39c Testimonies as to the excellence of Reilly-bored percussion gun barrels can be found.*39d.

What machinery Reilly was using to bore his barrels is unknown. In 1826 London barrel-maker Lancaster patented a machine that could finish a barrel precisely. It was improved in 1838 allowing the bored barrel and chamber to be precisely aligned along one axis.*39e It is possible that Reilly obtained one of the Lancaster machines.

. . . . .Barrel Lengths: From an analysis of some 700 extant photographed Reilly's:
. . . . . . . . . .— Rifles: After the arrival of the pin-fire in 1856 the normal barrel lengths for Reilly center-break rifles including big bore game guns were 26” to 28”. There are exceptions of course; a small rook rifles might have a 24" barrel. (An 1861 advertisement states rifle barrels could be obtained in 24, 26 and 28 inch lengths).
. . . . . . . . . .-- Shotguns: The standard Reilly break-action shotgun barrel length after 1856 was 30”. There are a few shorter barrels for .410, and boy’s guns. There are longer barrels up to 36” for big bore, center-break shotguns. In general If a 12 bore shotgun has barrels shorter than 30"'s, they have either been cut down, re-barreled or repurposed from a rifle.

. . . . .Damascus: Reilly from the beginning used Damascus barrels for long-guns and for high-end percussion pistols (he ceased making pistols in the late 1830’s). Reilly continued to make Damascus barreled guns until bankruptcy in 1912 although for the most part his early 1900’s production had switched to steel. His Damascus patterns were conservative, and based on a review of about 600 surviving guns, fell into three types:
. . . . . . . . . .-- 1820-1865 – Variations of a Plain English Stub Twist*39f



. . . . . . . . . .-- 1865-1912 – Crolle patterns – variations of Large scroll, Symmetric, or Annular Crolle.*39g



. . . . . . . . . .— Other Patterns. There were a few seemingly more exotic patterns but they were rare.*39h



Note: Dr. Hause identified the patterns in the above footnotes.

. . . . .Barrel Blanks: Where Reilly obtained his Damascus barrel blanks is unknown.
. . . . . . . . . .-- There was a well known barrel forger in London William Fullerd used by Manton, Purdey and others, However, Fullerd barrels are stamped with a ‘WF,” *39i None have been found on Reilly’s so far. (The surviving guns from this period are few and their barrels for the most part not photographed). Fullerd closed his forge in 1844.
. . . . . . . . . .-- Presumably at least during the 1820’s-1850’s Reilly's barrel blanks came from Birmingham and the plain patterns, so different from Continental flamboyance seem to bear this out. (Purdey used similar patterns at the time).
. . . . . . . . . .-- There is one Reilly shotgun from the early 1860’s which has a faint Liège proof-mark on it overlain with London proofs,*39j possibly indicating that by then, if not earlier, Reilly like other London gunmakers might have begun using Belgian barrels.
. . . . . . . . . .-- By 1890 UK Damascus barrels came from Liège per numerous references.

. . . . .Initials on Barrels, 1870’s: In the early 1870’s, shortly after the changeover in Damascus patterns, a series of barrels have workers'' initials on them. These began around SN 17500. Since these barrels were sourced in Birmingham (by all accounts) they likely are Birmingham barrel maker initials; Similar initials have been noted on other Birmingham barrels used by other makers. There are 10 examples, SN 17552 (WJ), 17626 (WJ), 18593 (WJ), 19500 (GE), 20249 (BE), 20255 (BE), 20466 (GE), 21361 (CP), 21369 (FR), and 21839 (WE), the last being numbered in 1879. Whose initials are these is still unknown. However, they are similar in style.*39k
. . . . . . . . . .Note: There may be initials on other Reilly barrels but again this sort of detail is often not included in advertisements. Other Reilly barrels before, during and after this period do not have initials.*39l

. . . . .Steel Barrels, 1882: In January 1882 Reilly advertised for the first time guns equipped with Whitworth compressed fluid steel barrels (originally an 1865 patent extended in 1879 for 5 years).*39m The first extant Reilly with a confirmed Whitworth barrel is SN 23574, a 12 gauge SxS pigeon gun hammer-gun owned by Cyril Adams. It is dated per the chart to December 1881.*39n


*40 Non-Serial Numbered Reilly’s; Reilly Engraving and Marketing Others' Guns:

No Reilly SN-not made by Reilly: In addition to making his own guns, selling used guns, etc. Reilly, throughout the history of the company marketed guns produced by others but finished and engraved by him. It was a major line of revenue for the company. These guns sported the Reilly name and address, but were not serial-numbered. If gun has no serial number, but has the Reilly name on it, he either 1) obtained the gun “in the white” and finished it or 2) it came to him complete from the manufacturer and he simply engraved and marketed it. He did not claim to have made it.

To differentiate, Reilly’s serial numbered guns were made by him; they include his own guns and guns he made using others’ patents under license such as the previously pictured Terry Patent breech loader, Prince Patent breech Loaders, Nuthall’s Patent, Gen. Jacob’s Patent, etc.

This was not at all unique to Reilly…other gunmakers did the same thing; Cogswell & Harrison had a “retail” branch (they placed a "retailed" insert plate on the guns); Holland & Holland were marketing a Lee-Speed at the turn of the century.

As examples in the first instance, there are the following:
-- A number of classic looking Reilly SxS’s with Birmingham proofs, *40a,
-- Enfields likely marketed to the Yoemanry Militia*40b,
-- Needle-fire Rook Rifles made in an ubiquitous style, market by many gun makers and the time and possibly made by Adams*40c
-- Complex four-barreled high-end muzzle loaders from 1858-59 with London proofs but no Reilly serial number.*40d
-- Reilly put his name on 6,000 Reilly-Comblain breech-loading carbines, not one of which is serial numbered.
-- The same applied in the 1870’s to Reilly Martini-Henry’s and Swinburns.

As for the second instance, during this period Reilly retailed several complete guns. These include:
-- Sharpes Rifles, for which Reilly became a UK distributor. (Sharps had obtained a contract with UK in 1855 for 6,000 guns; They saw action in the mutiny and along the NWFP but were not adopted generally by the army and were phased out after the adoption of the Snider; Sharps along with Prince may have been an early Reilly hope for a large Arsenal contract; he continued to advertise them for 20 years.*40e
-- Winchesters - at least three are still in existence;*40f
-- An Adams Beaumont revolving cylinder carbine from 1855*40g; among many others.
-- As the 60’s and 70’s progressed, he offered ready made guns from other makers (including Westley-Richards) as well in his advertisements.

These non-serial numbered Reilly’s cannot help with the Reilly date chart. Nevertheless examples are provided in order to establish their existence and articulate the concept of Reilly putting guns on the market with his name that he did not claim to make.