I'm going to try this one more time. Les may be a wonderful guy and I have heard good things about his company. However, my key statement was that he of all people should know that the torching at Ithaca was not by choice, it was because they admittedly lost the original formula which obviously did not involve torching. The results of "torching" at Ithaca were not good and the gunsmiths at Ithaca were well aware of that. It was a last ditch effort to get the last single barrels out the door. The practice should not be continued just because the "company" built a few dozen guns using that method.